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Subject: Re-Edition of Dorn officially announced !!! rss

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UA Darth
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DaviddesJ wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
When it comes to opinions, there is no correct. Just like Mcdonalds is not necessarily the best food in the world.

He made no claim that stats back up his opinion. He just stated his opinion.


You are out to lunch, as usual.

The statement was, "I think most would agree Descent is a better game." Obviously, you do back that up by looking at most people's ratings.


Nope.

skars wrote:
jpwrunyan wrote:
Tomb has no Dungeon Keeper, iirc, so not an appropriate comparison, imo.

I think most would agree Descent is a better game. I have never played it and have no interest in doing so. Dorn is unique enough to keep my interest, so it has that going for it.


Sorry for the thread necromancy, but Descent is _not_ a better game.



You are referring to the wrong claim. So, no, when stating that it is not a better game, he was simply stating his opinion. The person HE responded to is the one that said that more people like Descent.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
When it comes to opinions, there is no correct. Just like Mcdonalds is not necessarily the best food in the world.

He made no claim that stats back up his opinion. He just stated his opinion.


You are out to lunch, as usual.

The statement was, "I think most would agree Descent is a better game." Obviously, you do back that up by looking at most people's ratings.


Only ratings from people who have rated both, otherwise the comparison is invalid.
 
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David desJardins
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shadow9d9 wrote:
You are referring to the wrong claim.


No, you are. Simon wrote, "my statement was that jpwrunyan's statement was correct." That's the claim he's talking about. If you want to argue with Simon then you need to argue with the actual claim he referred to, not some other claim.

But I'm sure you will just obfuscate some more.
 
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Simon Barnes
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Bagherra wrote:
Only ratings from people who have rated both, otherwise the comparison is invalid.


I agree, but I also would be willing to wager that if I were to go through the ratings of those who rated both that Descent would average the higher rating of the two.

I will point out at this juncture that during a brief perusal of the ratings I noted a few single 10 ratings for Dorn, people who registered in 2008 to add one single solitary rating. When those ratings comprise a relatively (to other games that is) large proportion of the high ratings for a game then that spells trouble if that game were to be in a ratings matchup.

Anyhow I am also anxious for updates on the OP's original question and am hopeful of a reprint that may address the issues raised elsewhere.
 
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UA Darth
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DaviddesJ wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
You are referring to the wrong claim.


No, you are. Simon wrote, "my statement was that jpwrunyan's statement was correct." That's the claim he's talking about. If you want to argue with Simon then you need to argue with the actual claim he referred to, not some other claim.

But I'm sure you will just obfuscate some more.


One person says that most people like descent more. Another person says that he disagrees and that descent is not the better game. Third person says that the first person is right because of stats. I say that the guy us entitled to his opinion and that the stats that support the first guy's assertion is irrelevant to the second guy's opinion.

"Simon wrote, "my statement was that jpwrunyan's statement was correct.""

No one challenged the first guy's assertion that stats show that people rate descent higher. Since Simon responded by quoting the second guy's opinion, he was directly responding to him. The stats have no relevance to a response to one guy's opinion.
 
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Simon Barnes
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shadow9d9 wrote:
You are referring to the wrong claim. So, no, when stating that it is not a better game, he was simply stating his opinion. The person HE responded to is the one that said that more people like Descent.


..and my response to him was that jpwrunyan was right.
 
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David desJardins
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shadow9d9 wrote:
No one challenged the first guy's assertion that stats show that people rate descent higher.


You did. I'm glad you're taking it back.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
No one challenged the first guy's assertion that stats show that people rate descent higher.


You did. I'm glad you're taking it back.


All I did here was point out that the second guy's opinion was not incorrect.

Feel free to try to quote it.
 
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simon_j_barnes wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
You are referring to the wrong claim. So, no, when stating that it is not a better game, he was simply stating his opinion. The person HE responded to is the one that said that more people like Descent.


..and my response to him was that jpwrunyan was right.


He never claimed that jpwrunyan's claim of people liking it was incorrect. He simply stated his own opinion.

Here was his response:

"Sorry for the thread necromancy, but Descent is _not_ a better game. Some may prefer plastic components, but the core rules are no better. Doom was a better representation of that dice mechanic and it fit the theme much better, but that is another thread. Descent is a cake walk where Doom there is actually a chance of failure.

They also have a different scale and I would say Dorn is more like Runebound in that sense. If you want a tactical adventure game with roleplay elements Warhammer Quest or Advanced HeroQuest crushes Descent if you are willing to pay and there have been a glutton of other kickstarter miniature fests over the past couple years that fit the same niche.

Dorn is dipped in the theme and flows really well. I hope it does get a chance to hit the US market at some point.

As for the DK not having a chance, I haven't played in a bit so I will have to do some new research"

Nowhere here do I see him claiming anything other than his person opinion.
 
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Simon Barnes
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shadow9d9 wrote:
One person says that most people like descent more. Another person says that he disagrees...


shadow9d9 wrote:
No one challenged the first guy's assertion that stats show that people rate descent higher.


Make your mind up he disagreed but didn't challenge him?

shadow9d9 wrote:
Since Simon responded by quoting the second guy's opinion, he was directly responding to him


Yes I was, but also if you look closely I quoted both guys. My response was that jpwrunyan was correct.
 
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simon_j_barnes wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
One person says that most people like descent more. Another person says that he disagrees...


shadow9d9 wrote:
No one challenged the first guy's assertion that stats show that people rate descent higher.


Make your mind up he disagreed but didn't challenge him?

shadow9d9 wrote:
Since Simon responded by quoting the second guy's opinion, he was directly responding to him


Yes I was, but also if you look closely I quoted both guys. My response was that jpwrunyan was correct.


Yes, he disagrees with the idea that the game is better. You can confirm this by reading his response, in which he doesn't disagree with the stats, but disagrees on the idea of which game is better based on xyz reason. The stats are irrelevant to his response.

He never disputed that jp was "correct," so what is the relevance of bringing up such stats?

One person says that more people go to McDonalds and rate it highly(and keep going back). Another person says that they don't think McDonalds is the best for xyz reason. You say that the stats back up McDonalds. I say that the guy is entitled to his opinion and that the stats don't affect it in any way or make it a wrong opinion.
 
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C Bazler
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And to think I subscribed to this thread to find out more information about a possible new edition...
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David desJardins
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cbazler wrote:
And to think I subscribed to this thread to find out more information about a possible new edition...


Yeah, sorry about that. I should know better.
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Simon Barnes
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shadow9d9 wrote:
He never claimed that jpwrunyan's claim of people liking it was incorrect. He simply stated his own opinion.


..and I never took issue with his opinion, I merely pointed out that jpwrunyan is correct.

You seem to be applying a double standard here, my quoting somebody is indicative of dissent but someone else quoting jpwrunyan isn't.

It is pretty simple IMHO, if he is disagreeing with jpwrunyan then reading my wording means I am disagreeing with him. If he is just quoting jpwrunyan and pointing out that in his opinion Descent isn't better then all my quote does is say "yeah but jpwrunyan is still correct".

It seems you initially thought I was taking issue with someone's opinion, that's fair enough, you just have to accept that I wasn't.

Anyway it's been "entertaining" but I'd rather not upset any others who click on the link expecting an update only to find a "you said (s)he said" debate.

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Matthew Rooks
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Took a quick look at the official forums, and there has been no activity for a whole year.
 
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Fergus Conolly
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I was just looking at buying the game and spotted this thread. I assume that the re-issue is not going to happen. Can I ask is it worth getting the expansion? Does it do anything to resolve some of the balance issues being discussed here?
 
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The expansion is worth getting but it doesn't really fix the balance issue. It gives you additional treasure cards, characters etc. though.

Experienced players may find the new Dornkeeper from the expansion actually easier to beat.
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Lee Fisher
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Still no news?
 
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