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Mage Wars Arena» Forums » General

Subject: Thoughts on proxies in tournaments and OP rss

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Chad Zed
Canada
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Good day everyone, I'm curious as to everyones take on proxies in tournaments and OP.

I have read quite a few threads about what sets to purchase to make the best spell book, etc, and am wondering why people just don't use proxies?

Also, I am of the opinion that they should be allowed in tournaments, and in OP. This would help us as gamers save a bit of money, and spend it on the new expansion!!

Anyways, what is the communities take on it?

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Dave Kudzma
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I'm against proxies. This isn't a collectible game but if you want to compete in a tourney my opinion is: actually have the cards.


Edited for clarity.
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Chad Zed
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Thanks for your reply Dave! May I inquire as to why you feel this way? Is it about asthetics? Something else?

Thanks again.
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Dave Kudzma
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Aside from tourneys for collectible games, where no proxies is actually a rule, I'm just of the mind that if you're going to compete, rather than play casually, that you should be willing to invest in the hobby.

Perhaps it's just what I'm used to.
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Chad Zed
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And that's fair... I would be more inclined to say no proxies on the board, or in display. So they would be okay for incantations or attack spells... or even other spells to replace ones that have been used, but not for 4 Hydras on the board. That is mostly from an asthetic standpoint on my side.
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Curt Carpenter
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For the benefit of someone who doesn't typically play these kinds of games (and certainly not in tournaments), can someone please explain what proxy means in this context? Thanks.
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Dave Kudzma
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Proxy: A mock up or scan of an original card used in substitution of the real thing.

Normally people use proxies for testing or playing when they do not have, cannot/will not obtain the real thing.

Edit:

This happens quite a bit with CCG's given the expense of buying cards. Many times players either cannot afford the card they want or prefer to test and see if the purchase would be worth it.
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Chad Zed
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Oh in this context I mean a card that acts as a stand in for another card... how that is denoted is different. Say you wanted 4 dissolves in your spell book, so you would have the standard 2, plus use a couple of other cards with something affixed to it to say that it is also a dissolve spell. Thus allowing you to have the 4 dissolves in your spell book without having to buy extra copies of that card.

I use sleeves that have a coloured back (different colours for different mages), thus its easy to slip in a piece of paper that indicates what spell it should be...

Hope my explanation makes sense.
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Dave Kudzma
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NovemberAdam wrote:
Oh in this context I mean a card that acts as a stand in for another card... how that is denoted is different. Say you wanted 4 dissolves in your spell book, so you would have the standard 2, plus use a couple of other cards with something affixed to it to say that it is also a dissolve spell. Thus allowing you to have the 4 dissolves in your spell book without having to buy extra copies of that card.

I use sleeves that have a coloured back (different colours for different mages), thus its easy to slip in a piece of paper that indicates what spell it should be...

Hope my explanation makes sense.


That's exactly what I was talking about as well.
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Chad Zed
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locusshifter wrote:
Proxy: A mock up or scan of an original card used in substitution of the real thing.

Normally people use proxies for testing or playing when they do not have, cannot/will not obtain the real thing.

Edit:

This happens quite a bit with CCG's given the expense of buying cards. Many times players either cannot afford the card they want or prefer to test and see if the purchase would be worth it.


Thats the crux of it though. This isn't a CCG, the rules allow for proxies, thus it should be allowed in tourneys and OP, shouldn't it?

One isn't "cheating", by adding proxies to a game like this, as it has the mechanic of building a deck. Also there is no random factor that one would find in a CCG, so you don't need to worry about a person "finding" a card because it feels different.
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Dave Kudzma
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NovemberAdam wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
Proxy: A mock up or scan of an original card used in substitution of the real thing.

Normally people use proxies for testing or playing when they do not have, cannot/will not obtain the real thing.

Edit:

This happens quite a bit with CCG's given the expense of buying cards. Many times players either cannot afford the card they want or prefer to test and see if the purchase would be worth it.


Thats the crux of it though. This isn't a CCG, the rules allow for proxies, thus it should be allowed in tourneys and OP, shouldn't it?

One isn't "cheating", by adding proxies to a game like this, as it has the mechanic of building a deck. Also there is no random factor that one would find in a CCG, so you don't need to worry about a person "finding" a card because it feels different.


So then by the same extension if someone were to show up with a completely home made copy that would be ok too? I know that's an extreme of using proxies, but either it's all or none IMHO.

I'd certainly like to hear other opinions.
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Chad Zed
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locusshifter wrote:
NovemberAdam wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
Proxy: A mock up or scan of an original card used in substitution of the real thing.

Normally people use proxies for testing or playing when they do not have, cannot/will not obtain the real thing.

Edit:

This happens quite a bit with CCG's given the expense of buying cards. Many times players either cannot afford the card they want or prefer to test and see if the purchase would be worth it.


Thats the crux of it though. This isn't a CCG, the rules allow for proxies, thus it should be allowed in tourneys and OP, shouldn't it?

One isn't "cheating", by adding proxies to a game like this, as it has the mechanic of building a deck. Also there is no random factor that one would find in a CCG, so you don't need to worry about a person "finding" a card because it feels different.


So then by the same extension if someone were to show up with a completely home made copy that would be ok too? I know that's an extreme of using proxies, but either it's all or none IMHO.

I'd certainly like to hear other opinions.


If all of the information was correct, sure. Could you imagine a set where each spell was on a plate of metal! This is a miniature game that uses cards as the miniatures, so some customization and tricking out would be fun. Again, it comes down to the information being accurate. Would be a pain to verify though.

Thus I would limit it to, there has to be at least one factory card in the book.
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Chris Corbin
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NovemberAdam wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
NovemberAdam wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
Proxy: A mock up or scan of an original card used in substitution of the real thing.

Normally people use proxies for testing or playing when they do not have, cannot/will not obtain the real thing.

Edit:

This happens quite a bit with CCG's given the expense of buying cards. Many times players either cannot afford the card they want or prefer to test and see if the purchase would be worth it.


Thats the crux of it though. This isn't a CCG, the rules allow for proxies, thus it should be allowed in tourneys and OP, shouldn't it?

One isn't "cheating", by adding proxies to a game like this, as it has the mechanic of building a deck. Also there is no random factor that one would find in a CCG, so you don't need to worry about a person "finding" a card because it feels different.


So then by the same extension if someone were to show up with a completely home made copy that would be ok too? I know that's an extreme of using proxies, but either it's all or none IMHO.

I'd certainly like to hear other opinions.


If all of the information was correct, sure. Could you imagine a set where each spell was on a plate of metal! This is a miniature game that uses cards as the miniatures, so some customization and tricking out would be fun. Again, it comes down to the information being accurate. Would be a pain to verify though.

Thus I would limit it to, there has to be at least one factory card in the book.


at some point I think you should show at least some support for the men and women that have worked to bring this game out and buy some cards. now, do I think everyone should buy 3 core sets just to have that one extra hand of bim-shala? No. In casual play or while testing builds it is fine to proxy, but I feel for tournaments there should not be any allowed.

of course, I'll most likely never play in a tournament... and still never likely proxy anything.
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Purple Paladin

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curtc wrote:
For the benefit of someone who doesn't typically play these kinds of games (and certainly not in tournaments), can someone please explain what proxy means in this context? Thanks.


Yeesh Curt, you really did'nt know what proxies are? Really? How clueless can you be? Everybody knows what they are!

Oh, and thanks for asking what they are, because, seriously, I had no clue either. blush

Well, time to go drive my "Proxied" Porsche . . .
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Adam Clausing
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My opinion, in order to maintain fairness, is that everyone have a set of the same card deck.

For example... if I played with just the core set, the opponent would as well. If you used an expansion, the opponent would as well.

If you didn't, you'd just be falling into the 'Magic' trap again and buying additional cards like crazy to gain an edge (or use proxies)... which I feel is a bunch of BS.

I guess I just like to keep it simple and fair. It makes the game more interesting.
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Dave Kudzma
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mandingoman wrote:
If you didn't, you'd just be falling into the 'Magic' trap again and buying additional cards like crazy to gain an edge (or use proxies)... which I feel is a bunch of BS.


I understand where you are coming from, but unlike Magic MW is not randomized. Other than the financial investment everyone has equal opportunity and pricing in order to get all of the cards.

Besides, we're talking about competitive/organized play. The rules allow 6 lvl 1 and 4 of anything else. Why should someone who invested heavily in the system be penalized for that? Sure, you could run tourneys where people can only use certain sets, or perhaps nerf the multiples allows down further, but at 120 points I don't think someone having a few more cards of certain types more than you do will matter. The strategies are going to vary wildly, and that will only diversify more with the subsequent releases.
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Robbie M.
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locusshifter wrote:
Besides, we're talking about competitive/organized play. The rules allow 6 lvl 1 and 4 of anything else.


Precisely. Casually, it doesn't even matter if you are playing by the rules or not. They are your cards, play them however you want.

But for the karma alone you should support your FLGS and AW by pulling out a $20 and buying a Tomb if you are lucky enough to have a store running tournaments and supporting an organized play program .

Seriously, this game is too new and accessible / affordable to warrant the need for proxies.
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Jeremy Harris
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Since I sell single Cards for a few Games, including Mage Wars , perhaps I am a little biased. However, if you are playing in an OP tournament that is supported, in some way, by the company that produces the game, it is only proper that all the cards in your spell book are real copies of said card.

If it is just testing and play for fun then proxies are fine, but for the real deal, you need to have the real deal.


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Chad Zed
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I understand the desire to support the company and FLGS... I do in fact own 2 core sets. If AW, or a FLGS did sell singles then there would be less of a need for proxies.

I suppose I'm coming from the anti-CCG mindset, of he who spent the most, will likely win. I have many friends who have a great deal of disdain of Magic for that reason. It's a good game, but wouldn't want to play in a tournament.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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I think I'd allow proxies but they would have to be scanned, not hand written.
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Doug Bey
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I think with a game like Mage Wars (non-CCG), the issue of proxies in a tournament is merely an ettiquette matter.

I, myself, would never use proxies in an official tournament. Like others have said, if you love the game, and really want some additional cards, it's a small investment to support the designers. And since it's NOT a blind-purchase, there's no HUGE budget gaps between players. (ie: in Magic, the richest players always had the best decks... or, the poorest, after they've spent all their money on card packs )

However, if I'm in a tourney, and my opponent sits down and asks if it's OK if he uses a few proxies in the game (that are nice quality, color-printed scans of the originals), I'd have no problems with it. It's just not what I would do.

But if his spellbook was overflowing with cheap looking proxies, THEN I would have an issue. In other words, I wouldn't want to go to an offical tourney, and have an experience with poor-quality proxies that impact my enjoyment of the game. This is a great looking game, and it should stay that way!

In short, to each their own... but please show some good gaming ettiquette if you do use some proxies.
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AJ Harris
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I am the manager of the Mage Wars tourney at Strategicon in Los Angeles. The issue of proxies never came up, but we do hold the MW tourney in the CCG Room where a Magic player might be stoned with D20s if they were found to have proxies.

I might allow proxies. Unless, of course, our tourney was sponsored by Arcane Wonders. In that case I would NEVER even consider such a thing
 
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