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Subject: Dominion: It`s all about grabbing the best cards, right? rss

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Matt Brown
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I don't think the article really changes a person's opinion of the game if they disliked it for whatever reason. The author even supports some of the cons of the game.
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Justin Wertz
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matthean wrote:
I don't think the article really changes a person's opinion of the game if they disliked it for whatever reason. The author even supports some of the cons of the game.


I enjoy playing Dominion, although I never owned my own set until I just bought Intrigue.

That being said, I think you're right in your statement that this article supports some of the cons (namely the one in the title of this thread).

When the article breaks down the 2 Kingdoms that are similar, but for one card, both of the given strategies involve grabbing the "best" (higher priced) cards. In fact, in neither case does the strategy explained involve the Pawn, Great Hall, or Feast. The 2nd strategy leaves out pretty much all of the Kingdom cards in place of 2 cards that cost 4 & 5, respectively!

So, while the Kingdoms may be "different," it seems that, in essence, only 3 or 4 of those cards really matter, in the end.
 
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Eric Matthews
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Does a game have to be perfect in order for one to love it? I'm not sure I understand the point of the thread here, really. Dominion absolutley has flaws and other quirks that can turn people off from it.

The only "flaw" I actually think people get wrong all the time is the one on theme. I love theme games, but with dominion it is exaclty the very light touch with theme that keeps it soo accessible. It has solid if unadventerous art and interesting names to keep it from becoming a totally abstract, but doesn't let theme get in its way. I can't get any other deckbuilder to the table more than once, but people still request dominion. They other ones always have "crappy combos", "stupid werewolf theme that doesn't make sense", "too fidley dungeon rules", "ugly wtf art", or some other complaint.

I'm still trying out more deckbuilders, because I love the mechanism, but Dominion is not flawless by any means.
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Michael Brandt
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Saying Dominion is all about grabbing the best cards is quite an oversimplification. How good each card is depends on the other 9 (or 10 if Young Witch is in the mix) cards that are available. Sure, some cards tend to be really good, but I still don't buy Chapel or King's Court 100% of the time.

Dominion is really more about figuring out which cards are the best for that particular game, and making sure you get them in the right order and make the correct decisions when playing them (sometimes trivial, but not always).
 
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Matt N

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Ganybyte wrote:
"crappy combos"

Not sure which one this is, if it's different from the rest. I originally guessed Thunderstone.
Quote:
"stupid werewolf theme that doesn't make sense"

Nightfall
Quote:
"too fidley dungeon rules"

Thunderstone
Quote:
"ugly wtf art"

Ascension - although I think the art works pretty well.

I still think the theme in Dominion sucks, and I also don't care that it sucks.

Eminent Domain has deck building elements and doesn't seem to fit your criticisms, although there aren't dramatic combos per se.
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D Stu
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weezknight wrote:
[q="matthean"]
When the article breaks down the 2 Kingdoms that are similar, but for one card, both of the given strategies involve grabbing the "best" (higher priced) cards. In fact, in neither case does the strategy explained involve the Pawn, Great Hall, or Feast. The 2nd strategy leaves out pretty much all of the Kingdom cards in place of 2 cards that cost 4 & 5, respectively!

I don't think that is fair to assume just because the cards are not mentioned that they will be unimportant in the kingdom. It was a short high-level strategic sketch, you can't mention every single card that might be helpful.
I also think that it depends on the actual game, your shuffles and your opponent which cards you might imply into your strategy.

Just for the first one:
Pawn: Pawn is a cheap versatile card. Except for when it's the only +buy on the board, it usually doesn't have an high impact, but can be used in many strategies. Here, going for an engine with Bridge-megaturn, you probably don't want that many Treasures, so a Pawn, which can be a cantrip will usually be preferable to Silver quite early. But of course you probably don't want to overpay, because at $3 it conflicts with Fishing Village, which on the other hand might be gone quite early. Especially after you played some Bridges, they are free and provide more buys, so this card that will probably be bought in this strategy, even if it's not one of its pillars.
Great Hall: Again, simple card which is never really powerfull, but that's another 8 VPs on the table, and after 3 Bridges they are for free. Again, other cards are more important, setting up multiple Bridges has priority, especially in the mirror. But in the mirror, there is the possibility of 3piling, when you have won the split without investing too much (maybe because your opponent ignored them, and you got them with free buys after you played 2-3 Briges), you are in a much better position to 3pile in a winning position then they are. But also here, you don't need to be in a mirror, your opponent might play BigMoney-Councilroom or so. For this case, the Great Hall basically gives you an additional free 8VP which you can easily pick up without disturbing your strategy already while you build your engine, while they can not that easily, as Great Halls might get drawn dead, and could have been a Silver that they like more.
Feast: Again, this obviously is not a card that the strategy usually evolves around but a way to get early $5s, or cheat you way up to them when you have Workshops or something. Here probably Bridge is too important and will get your way up to $5 anyway.

Also the other ones, Gardens is again free bonus-points in the end, you hope you don't need them, but against a faster strategy they give you the time to build up more, mass spam buys (Bridge and CR and Pawn again) bring them up to 4 or 5 or more with all the engine components and buys you have and probably even come back from 0-7 Provinces with 1 Province, 8 Gardens, some Duchies and Estates; Trading Post I actually also see myself buying for this strategy, there is no other trasher on the board, and even if Fishing Village Council Room is really good at drawning, 10 dead cards and some Bridges and non-drawing Fishing Village is a quite large deck, I would feel safer if this could be reduced a bit. Then there is Adventurer, and well, ok, that's Adventurer, it's not very good and also doesn't fit into this deck.


So there were only say 4 cards mentioned to define the strategy, but nevertheless 4 more cards somehow contribute to the strength of weaknesses of this strategy, Gardens especially making BigMoney almost a no go against any engine, Great Hall which would give a small bonus for the engine against BigMoney if Gardens wouldn't already have solved it, but more importantly might be of importance in the mirror concerning 3piles, Pawn which might get you more buys also for very low costs, again helping against a potential BigMoney when you have to come from behind, and Trading Post which might thin the deck.
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Dennison Milenkaya
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Twilight Imperium is about getting the best planets and technologies.

Settlers of Catan is about getting the best intersections to build on.

Puerto Rico is about grabbing the best goods and buildings.

Carcassonne is about grabbing the best terrains.

Hawaii is about getting the best villages.

Agricola is about getting the best farm.



Yeah, there's a goal. But if you are playing the game, you are figuring out what it means to pursue that goal and finding a way to do it within the rules. It becomes a competition when other players are trying to figure out what it means for them and trying to pursue their strategies in the face of the opposition (you) making attempts to thwart their plans, while trying to do it faster and better.

I'm sorry, but you mention a criticism in the title of this thread, yet I don't see one. I only see an over-simplification of the game's direction.
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