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Subject: Picking on the host rss

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M. S.
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And? What did you do?
 
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Eðvarð Hilmarsson
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elgin_j wrote:
North_Wolf wrote:
If you dont think they can handle a direct approach, I would start concentrating on co-op and team based games. You can even be honest about doing it because you want to have fun too.


If they can't handle the direct approach then I'd advocate finding some new opponents that can offer you an enjoyable experience.


Sometimes the players we find are not random guys at a store, it can be friends or family. A little extra effort might be warranted in case dumping whoever is not the desired result.
 
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Garcian Smith
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You need to find games where interactivity is low or fixed.

Race for the Galaxy comes to mind. You just play your action, execute them and repeat. You can consume what they were going to trade, but overall, it's a non-interactive race.

Puzzle Strike (Third Edition) also fixes this because the game ends as soon as someone dies and the person with the most health wins. This makes it so players have to dog after the best player, which might or might not be you. But the thing to note is that whoever is winning is CLEARLY visible, because your status in the game is determined by how many chips you have in your gem pile 1-10, with 10 being dead. So even though your typical friend Joe likes to pick on you, he sees that you have 9 gems and Susan has only 2, which then occurs to him that killing you would make Susan win, etc.
 
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J Holmes
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However in Race you can hold out cards they need for big points despite those cards being worthless for you.
 
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Patrick
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As was already hinted at: Whenever I play anything with my friends, I'm the main target.

In my experience there's really no way to deal with it. It's just what happens. I play anyway and enjoy the game for what it is. I know that's not much help, but it's the best I can offer. Find enjoyment in the challenge and/or take it as a compliment. It offers you the chance to get really good at the game since you always need to improve to have a chance.
 
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Mr Deltaz
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Revelade wrote:

Puzzle Strike (Third Edition) also fixes this because the game ends as soon as someone dies and the person with the most health wins. This makes it so players have to dog after the best player, which might or might not be you. But the thing to note is that whoever is winning is CLEARLY visible, because your status in the game is determined by how many chips you have in your gem pile 1-10, with 10 being dead. So even though your typical friend Joe likes to pick on you, he sees that you have 9 gems and Susan has only 2, which then occurs to him that killing you would make Susan win, etc.


Not sure if that would help, like in settlers, most of your VP are public and is clear that I am not doing well, they still trade with the person that is clearly 1 or 2 vp from winning rather than me (I even point out that they could have technology cards that would be worth 1 VP).

 
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Mr Deltaz
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Mosch wrote:
As was already hinted at: Whenever I play anything with my friends, I'm the main target.

In my experience there's really no way to deal with it. It's just what happens. I play anyway and enjoy the game for what it is. I know that's not much help, but it's the best I can offer. Find enjoyment in the challenge and/or take it as a compliment. It offers you the chance to get really good at the game since you always need to improve to have a chance.


Hard to enjoy a game when the main mechanic is trading and no one trades with you. Or in SmallWorld, everyone just goes and take your whole race out before your next turn. Or in bang, where no matter what I say (or don't say) I am always taken out first, sometimes even before I take my first turn. I don't see how getting better can solve some of these issues and honestly, it is just not fun when it happens every single time.

I have been crazy busy with work so I haven't had a chance to talk to anybody other than my wife and I am not sure when I will be able to organize the next event.

I will try to talk to some them and bringing it up in some sort of joking way that they always pick on me and see how they react or what they answer. I am also thinking of just inviting a couple of less people that know each other better to see if that reduces the ganging up.

I will also try to play a bit more of "Multiplayer solitaire" games like San Juan, Puerto Rico and Thunderstone.

While there is still chances to screw other people up, it is less confrontational than some other games.

I will definitely let you know how it turns out and thanks for all the advice!


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Mr Deltaz
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A quick update:

I haven't been able to talk to everybody due to being really busy.

Also, since I have been playing a bit more often with the meetup group and my wife, I haven't had the urge to invite them over and I am still a bit burned out of playing with them after what happened.

In any case, one of my friends questioned me when I was going to organize the next meetup since they missed it and liked to play games. I mentioned that one of the reasons I haven't tried to work out the time with everybody is because I am really fed up with all the ganging up on me. This person admitted that yes they do go against me on every game because I always win. I said that I could track my wins and that I don't win that often. My friend agreed that I don't win that often...because they don't let me. I then argued that since we started to meet, they have been doing this, so how do they know I would win most of the time? She said that it is just a given.

So basically, there is no proof I win most of the games since that was the assumption from the beginning and everyone went against me. It has been over a year and they still go against me even tho the winning percentage of some other players is way higher than mine.

I know some people will say that perhaps my view is a bit biased, however, me and my wife have been keeping track of the wins when we play a 2 player game for the last 2 months and we have played a total of about 20 games (I don't have the sheet in front of me right now) and we constantly keep our win percentage to 50%. Using this info I would argue that if I am a big threat to everybody, so should be my wife and perhaps I am not a threat after all. However, no matter what I say, she ignored all the facts and numbers I mentioned.

Bringing it up didn't seem to do much with her so I am still not in a rush to invite them over.

On a side note, some of my wife's friends were interested in playing Catan (Since this is the only game they played and own) so we will invite them over for a night and see how that goes. They play more often than my other friends, so here is to hoping that we have a better experience with them and can have them over more frequently!
 
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New friends - great idea. Maybe your other group will realize that they really shouldn't treat people that way, or they'll lose out on a good thing. It's one thing for you to lose every time, it's quite another for them all to keep you from winning as a team whose only objective is to beat you down. There is at least one other person in the group who would be better served not doing that, and they're messing up the game.
 
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Goes to show that perception is subjective, and biased by expectations. Those who spent a substantial amount of time with one subject (i.e. games) are usually seen as the most proficient. On a general basis, that might be the case, meaning general knowledge of games, and skills to pick up, realise and use rules easier and quicker than people who don't.

But what often is overlooked that each game is a different, and separate challenge. It's like watching a lot of sports on TV, or even live, and then being judged as being the one best in all of them, by default.

I have been kneedeep in the world of board games for several years now. And I still am not very good at gaming. Mind you, I don't want to be "good at it". Although I win more often with more casual gamers, I win rarely with gamers on par with me, when it comes to knowledge. Or even with less knowledge, but with more logical or mathematical skills.
Heck, I designed a purely abstract game, played it close to 100 times now, and STILL lose half the time, especially when it goes beyond plain mistakes, and enters the realm of long-term planning.

Also, unfortunately, it seems like at least one of your friends (the one mentioned) will quite likely not be "cured" from this behaviour against you (not saying she has to be). If this is also true for the rest (or at least most) of this group, then I really would recommend not playing competitive games like those you mentioned with them, anymore. As has been stated, there are alternatives. And if you keep those gaming nights with the "problematic people" occasional, it shouldn't be a problem to switch to either cooperatives or the mentioned "multiplayer solitaire" games. This way, you can have fun with them, too, everyone is appeased, AND you still will have opportunities to play those other nifty games (with the other crowd, and possibly your wife's friends).
 
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Christian Kalk
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I'm a little surprised no one else has mentioned this...

Discuss this with your wife. She appears to be the one who (unintentionally) spearheads and condones picking on you. As you mentioned, she doesn't want to appear to be "blocking" anyone else, but blocking you is 100% ok. It wouldn't surprise me if she shuts you out to avoid the appearance of favouritism, but when it's constant and obvious, it's going too far. Clearly it's affecting your enjoyment of the game.

It's easy for the other players to align against you since she's already setting the example. If she were to start trading with you a little more often (even if it's trades that are always somewhat to her benefit), at least it's a break from the pattern of hostility.

A break from negotiating games in favour of low-interaction games might help as well by breaking the pattern (especially if you lose, proving your point that you're not a dominating force!)

Unfortunately, it may be necessary for you to throw a couple games when people do play fair with you in order to earn the right to be treated as an equal.
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Mr Deltaz
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KamikazeJohnson wrote:
I'm a little surprised no one else has mentioned this...

Discuss this with your wife. She appears to be the one who (unintentionally) spearheads and condones picking on you. As you mentioned, she doesn't want to appear to be "blocking" anyone else, but blocking you is 100% ok. It wouldn't surprise me if she shuts you out to avoid the appearance of favouritism, but when it's constant and obvious, it's going too far. Clearly it's affecting your enjoyment of the game.

It's easy for the other players to align against you since she's already setting the example. If she were to start trading with you a little more often (even if it's trades that are always somewhat to her benefit), at least it's a break from the pattern of hostility.

A break from negotiating games in favour of low-interaction games might help as well by breaking the pattern (especially if you lose, proving your point that you're not a dominating force!)

Unfortunately, it may be necessary for you to throw a couple games when people do play fair with you in order to earn the right to be treated as an equal.


Actually, I can't think of the first person that started this behavior, but I think it was more of a unspoken agreement between all of them. I do see some merit on talking to my wife, maybe if I can get someone not to alienate me from the game the other players may start doing the same.

She kind of felt bad for teaming up against me, and said she would try to play without biases.
 
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Not to toot my own horn (throw in cheesy remark here), but...

Dumon wrote:

You have already talked to your wife. What she said leads me to believe that she should not be playing highly competitive games with interaction, anyways. I am guessing that she plays games just for the fun of it, and is not in it for the win, because this (your) statement of hers would secure me in the presumption that she will never win a game, except by chance.
This situation could be talked through with her, if you want. If she understands that not competing with and not being able to say "no" to others she knows less and only picking on the ones she knows best (i.e. you) will prevent her from ever winning interactive games, then she probably will change her approach (if she is not in a majority of non-gamers, that is). If she, however, cannot change her reaction to people here (not judging), then it is probably best to abstain from playing such games with her altogether. Not only for your benefit, but also for her's - she would probably have a lot more fun with games where she is not "compelled" to act a certain way.


Its basically what you said, but a bit differently...
 
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She might be able to point out to the group that, "you know, Steve is actually doing really well, better than Deltas, we should go after him", and actually get the group to listen (because they're more likely to believe her than you, unfortunately).
 
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Michael Grankin
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Deltaz, do you like the people you play with as personalities? I mean, do you enjoy their company when you are not playing? Because to me, frankly, they look like a bunch of assholes. Having fun by collectively mocking one person is common for kids, it is a bad sign if adult behaves like that. So, if you like them and have good relationships with them, honest conversation can work wonders. If not, you'd better find yourself another group.
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theflint wrote:
Having fun by collectively mocking one person is acceptable for kids, not for mature persons.


Not my kids.
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Michael Grankin
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Jythier wrote:
theflint wrote:
Having fun by collectively mocking one person is acceptable for kids, not for mature persons.


Not my kids.


Well, kudos to you as a parent. My English is pretty poor, I think more appropriate word would be "common". I edited my post, thanks.
 
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Agent J
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theflint wrote:
Jythier wrote:
theflint wrote:
Having fun by collectively mocking one person is acceptable for kids, not for mature persons.


Not my kids.


Well, kudos to you as a parent. My English is pretty poor, I think more appropriate word would be "common". I edited my post, thanks.


My wife stops us whenever I get them to mock the youngest boy with me.

That was a joke.
 
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You must look inward, grasshopper.

In any board game you will have many enemies. You will have the dice. You will have the cards. You will have opponents who see your demise as their primary goal and victory as their second.

But within all of these enemies: the ones you can see, you can hear, perhaps even smell, the biggest enemy…your greatest enemy is the hardest to detect.

The biggest enemy in any game is yourself.

You want your opponents to stop ganging up on you? Let go of that want.
You want to roll something other than the robber? Let go of that want.
You want someone to trade with you? Let go of that want.
You want to actually win a board game? Let go of that want.

Let go of your wants. Want nothing. Instead, feel.

Feel rolling the dice. Feel building things with your resources and drawing special cards. Feel your opponents (with your mind, of course, keep your hands to yourself) play their turns and make their decisions.

Focus your mind until only the game remains. You will only finally triumph when it is impossible to do anything else.

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KamikazeJohnson wrote:
I'm a little surprised no one else has mentioned this...

Discuss this with your wife. She appears to be the one who (unintentionally) spearheads and condones picking on you. As you mentioned, she doesn't want to appear to be "blocking" anyone else, but blocking you is 100% ok. It wouldn't surprise me if she shuts you out to avoid the appearance of favouritism, but when it's constant and obvious, it's going too far. Clearly it's affecting your enjoyment of the game.

It's easy for the other players to align against you since she's already setting the example. If she were to start trading with you a little more often (even if it's trades that are always somewhat to her benefit), at least it's a break from the pattern of hostility.

A break from negotiating games in favour of low-interaction games might help as well by breaking the pattern (especially if you lose, proving your point that you're not a dominating force!)

Unfortunately, it may be necessary for you to throw a couple games when people do play fair with you in order to earn the right to be treated as an equal.
I think this is especially important in light of your upcoming game night with her friends.
 
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Christian Link
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A Host is responsible for the comfort and happiness of his/her guests. If this alone is not a chore for most, a good Host must take "ribbing" in stride, and for good measure lets add responsibility for safety and security of said guests...

Case in point... cocktails and cigars while hosting Deluxe Illuminati on my cake day, my neighbor over the fence inquired and I invited him to join and introduced him to my sister, her husband and I. While playing he started making advances towards my sister and becoming passively threatening to me. After repeatedly asking him kindly to refrain from making a scene by hitting on my married sister with her husband present, he finally understood, was embarrassed, and apologized. I told him not to worry and said, "if he got out of hand we would just throw him over the fence". We all laughed. Crisis averted.
 
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Mike Collins
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cptwacky wrote:
A Host is responsible for the comfort and happiness of his/her guests. If this alone is not a chore for most, a good Host must take "ribbing" in stride, and for good measure lets add responsibility for safety and security of said guests...

But equally, a Guest is responsible for showing some level of courtesy and respect to the Host for opening their doors and welcoming them into their home. Where Guests abuse the generosity of their Host, they shouldn't expect to be invited to be a Guest on future occasions.

And, frankly, when you're with people you know well, the formality of "proper" Host/Guest roles is less important than good old-fashioned honest and open communication between (one hopes) rational adults.
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I agree, the idea of the "perfect host" is IMO a bit outdated. It is not the Host's job to secure that everyone has a good time. When people meet to follow on their hobby, there is usually an unspoken agreement that they
a) will pursue said hobby
b) will do so in a fashion that everyone has fun, including the host
If that were not the case, it would be moot to meet for this occasion, anyways.

The location, nowadays, is most often than not the convenient one, or the one of the guys who'se turn it is. Or maybe its the one of the guy who invited all of the others, sure.

But host/guest relations should nowadays not transcend the common curtesy rules, and rules of politeness and everyday socializing. The host is NOT responsible for making sure that everyone has a good time. That is the responsibility of everyone around the table.

Gosh, this sounds more and more like you need a party planner, or an event schedule, for a gaming night.

Well, if I invite friends over for a game night, they know where the fridge is, where the glasses are, and where the toilet is. They ask politely, still, but they don't even have to. Not to empty the Single Malt Scotch bottle, which could be expensive, is common courtesy. So is not breaking things, not entering the bedroom, and not rifling through stuff.

Being the host above and beyond that should be tailored to the occasion (e.g. dinner with the boss), to the money earned due to the occasion (if you host an event and get paid for it), and should in all other cases be optional. We don't live in Victorian Age London, and it was a bloody blight back then, too.
 
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Agent J
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I disagree. It's important to be a good host and show hospitality. One of the ways I do that is by making sure everyone coming is already on the same page.

When I go to game days, our host requires snacks to be brought but provides a lunch for us. It's extremely generous for them to do, and I think we'd all come anyway even without that, but it makes it feel homey and welcome. But it's specified on the event page what is expected (snacks, good attitude) so that nobody shows up without snacks and with a bad attitude that he would have to 'host block'.
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Lauri Lannetta
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I'm the host and the main target in each game by default. I still win around 40% of the time, so maybe my playgroup is justified in their alliance against me.

It annoys the heck out of me when people won't listen to my reasoning as to who's actually in the lead, though. They still don't get that while I never admit to being in the lead if I feel like I am, I never lie about someone else being the leader.
 
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