Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Saints in Armor» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hedgehog rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Looking at the illustrated EXAMPLE OF INTERCEPTION (9.3) in the rules, I'm trying to sort out what would happen if the pictured Cavalry (Queen) successfully intercepted Crawford's Heavy Infantry.

(Brace yourselves lads, here we go...)

The HI has moved (1 MP, so 3 MP left) and the Cav intercepts to the HI's rear. The HI cannot React fire to its rear, and must attempt to form a Hedgehog (HH) via a Morale Check (MC). If it fails, the HI loses 1 Level of Morale (now Shaken). If it succeeds, it receives a HH marker.

Next, the Cav may immediately initiate Close Combat (CC). The attacking horse has Momentum (+2 DRM) and expends a pistol shot (+1 DRM), for a combined +3 DRM so far. If the HI fails its MC (and thus does not form a HH), then the Cav gets another +3 DRM: +1 DRM for attacking the HI's rear hex, +1 DRM for Morale (the Morale Shaken HI is -1 Morale, down to 7), and +1 for the defender being Morale Shaken. So that's a possible +6 DRM for the attacker (this may reduce to +4 DRM depending on defensive modifiers because that's the maximum allowed DRM in CC).

The defending HI is half-strength against the Cav in CC, so that's a -1 DRM for 1:3 (1:2) odds. Depending on whether the HI formed HH or not, the matrix provides a -1 DRM (Cav vs. HI) or -2 DRM (Cav vs. HH).

At Morale 8, the odds are that the HI does indeed form HH against the intercepting Cav; the final CC DRM would thus be 0. So let's presume that's the case.

CC is resolved and the Cav suffers a Formation Hit regardless, but the HI in a HH does not incur a Formation Hit. That's unless the HI is Morale Broken as a result of the CC, then it loses the HH marker and has no Formation.

If the HI has to retreat via CC, it would actually advance retreat away from the Cav. It could then continue on with its remaining 3 MA - unless Morale Broken (then it has no MA and stops after the mandated 2 hex retreat) - whether in HH or not.

If lucky, the 2 SP Cav may Pursue and eliminate the 13 SP HI unit, after which the Cav is automatically Formation Broken.

If unlucky, the Cav has at least forced the HI into a HH that will take 3 Reform actions to return it to Normal.

My goodness - I'm fascinated and befuddled at the same time!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Ekberg
Sweden
Malmö
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Steve,

Sounds correct, except that active units cannot react, therefore the moving HI cannot form hedgehog, or even fire at cavalry in its front. Also hedgehogs have no movement allowance.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
Denmark
Vejle
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
If the HI fails its MC (and thus does not form a HH), then the Cav gets another +3 DRM: +1 DRM for attacking the HI's rear hex, +1 DRM for Morale (the Morale Shaken HI is -1 Morale, down to 7), and +1 for the defender being Morale Shaken. So that's a possible +6 DRM for the attacker (this may reduce to +4 DRM depending on defensive modifiers because that's the maximum allowed DRM in CC).


I think you are misunderstanding something here. It seems like you are counting the MS marker twice: first by reducing the morale of the unit, and then again in close combat as an additional modifier. THis is incorrect. The only effect of MS is to reduce the morale of the unit by 1.

The modifiers are thus: +2 momentum, +1 pistols, +1 rear (if the HI didnt go into hedgehog, as hedgehogs have no facing), +1 morale differential (8 vs 7), -1 size, -1 or -2 for unit type (for normal HI or Hedgehog) for a total of:
+3 vs normal HI or +2 vs hedgehog

Brian

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
Denmark
Vejle
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
also: I agree with David :)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, thnx for the feedback - I see now in (9.2.3) that the Cav is not expending movement points per se (it is reacting), so the active HI can't form HH.

It seems like the active 13 SP HI is very vulnverable in this situation, even to a 2 SP Cav. While 3 Reform actions are a steep cost to recover, still if a HH saves an HI from being devastated by a Cav unit, then of course it is worth it.

I don't really recall using HH that much before because we didn't quite grasp it, plus it was yet another special rule to consider. But now I'm (finally) starting to see its pros and cons - how often do you find Hedgehogs being used in MPBS (and any tactics you'd care to share)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Ekberg
Sweden
Malmö
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, HI on the move are very vulnerable to interception by cavalry.

It´s historical, small units of horse could and would often ride down large infantry battalions. The battle of Lund (in NGBG) is an example, where small sections of Swedish cavalry, 30-50 men strong, routed several Danish Battalions of 5-700 men strong each, when these were about to attack the Swedish center wing infantry.

The trick is to simply avoid moving HI when in interception range of formed, good quality enemy cavalry. Although HI and Cav are worth the same, 10 points, the infantry are often crucial to be able to win and you have fewer of them, so one unit lost is felt more than a cavalry unit.

Hedgehogs are usually seen when one side has managed to defeat one or both of the opponent cavalry wings, and then turn on the rear of the enemy HI, putting them into hedgehogs. The hedgehogs are then destroyed by musket fire and artillery. The other case is voluntary hedgehogs, when you have the advantage of very good defensive terrain and not really in need of being able to perform musket fire of your own. The Alte Veste in GATG is an example. Putting the Imperial HI in the fort hex in a hedgehog makes them virtually unbeatable.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.