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Subject: Republican plan to steal the next few elections rss

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Dave G
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rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
and assclowns like Rich want to feign shock and point fingers at how the "other guys" are the only people who would ever think of stooping so low rather than addressing the inherent flaws in a system that allows this kind of cynical manipulation.


Wrong as usual dipshit.


Name-calling hardly seems necessary.


I hope that's intentional irony.


Irony?


Hypocrisy?


Shh. You're ruining the song. You and the rest of the Butt-hurt Brigade can go back to whining about how I don't pat you on the head every time you post some trite partisan horseshit when we're done.
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Rich Shipley
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
and assclowns like Rich want to feign shock and point fingers at how the "other guys" are the only people who would ever think of stooping so low rather than addressing the inherent flaws in a system that allows this kind of cynical manipulation.


Wrong as usual dipshit.


Name-calling hardly seems necessary.


I hope that's intentional irony.


Irony?


Hypocrisy?


Shh. You're ruining the song. You and the rest of the Butt-hurt Brigade can go back to whining about how I don't pat you on the head every time you post some trite partisan horseshit when we're done.


You think anyone cares about gaining your approval? Yikes, there's a swelled head.
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Dave G
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rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
and assclowns like Rich want to feign shock and point fingers at how the "other guys" are the only people who would ever think of stooping so low rather than addressing the inherent flaws in a system that allows this kind of cynical manipulation.


Wrong as usual dipshit.


Name-calling hardly seems necessary.


I hope that's intentional irony.


Irony?


Hypocrisy?


Shh. You're ruining the song. You and the rest of the Butt-hurt Brigade can go back to whining about how I don't pat you on the head every time you post some trite partisan horseshit when we're done.


You think anyone cares about gaining your approval? Yikes, there's a swelled head.



No smooooooking sign on your cigarette breaaaaak
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Boaty McBoatface
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I would just like to add

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Chad Ellis
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You guys are just reminding me of when some comedian went off on how the whole song was wrong. "No, Alanis. It's not ironic. It's unfortunate."
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Then let's extend the metaphor: I am going to beat the shit out of you (because my actions will not stop with one punch - they are designed to come to a specific end). Are you justified in defending yourself? I think the moral argument there is plain.


Nice to see you're fine with the Republicans defending themselves in this instance.

Defending themselves? The Republican policies cannot stand on their own and convince enough of the United States elecorate to vote for their Presedential candidates, so they now need to rig the electoral college.

The appropriate defense would be to adjust their policies to appeal to the electorate.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Then let's extend the metaphor: I am going to beat the shit out of you (because my actions will not stop with one punch - they are designed to come to a specific end). Are you justified in defending yourself? I think the moral argument there is plain.


Nice to see you're fine with the Republicans defending themselves in this instance.

Defending themselves? The Republican policies cannot stand on their own and convince enough of the United States elecorate to vote for their Presedential candidates, so they now need to rig the electoral college.

The appropriate defense would be to adjust their policies to appeal to the electorate.
For shame, what do you think this democracy thing is about one man one vote?
 
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J
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bjlillo wrote:
JerBear doesn't believe in one man, one vote. He believes in using any electoral advantage that helps Democrats.

Who would that be? A figment of your imagination it seems.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Any state that decides not to go for winner takes all has decided to make itself irrelevant in the campaigning, and not wanting any largesse from the candidates.

Consider a swing state with 20 electoral votes up for offer, winner takes all. Could go 55-45 either way. That's big. Candidates will come calling.

Now if it splits its vote, 9 votes go to each candidate, and the other 2 are up for contest. That's the smallest state in the union. Candidates will go anywhere else.

So if one party decides to do this, that's saying party is more important than state. Make sure you let the electors know that. Of course maybe they'll be happy without the attention.
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Dan Schaeffer
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bjlillo wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
jmilum wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Then let's extend the metaphor: I am going to beat the shit out of you (because my actions will not stop with one punch - they are designed to come to a specific end). Are you justified in defending yourself? I think the moral argument there is plain.


Nice to see you're fine with the Republicans defending themselves in this instance.

Defending themselves? The Republican policies cannot stand on their own and convince enough of the United States elecorate to vote for their Presedential candidates, so they now need to rig the electoral college.

The appropriate defense would be to adjust their policies to appeal to the electorate.
For shame, what do you think this democracy thing is about one man one vote?


JerBear doesn't believe in one man, one vote. He believes in using any electoral advantage that helps Democrats.


And you don't believe in using any electoral advantage that helps your preferred candidates? It is funny how the GOP was perfectly happy with the way the electoral college worked in the past, especially in 2000, but now seems to think there's a fundamental problem with it.

For the record, I think awarding electors proportionally might be an idea worth exploring. However, a party machine doing it on a state-by-state basis solely to split the states where that party can gain an advantage - that's not adherence to principle, that's shady maneuvering.
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Shawn Fox
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I hope the Republicans manage to pull it off and win the next presidential election this way. That is the only way the country will ever come to its senses and actually fix the problem. Our system is supposed to be built around 'one person, one vote' but that is certainly not where we are now. Unless you happen to live in one of the 6 states that are split near 50/50, your vote means nothing if you belong to the minority political party in that state, at least for senators and the president. That is also true in around 50% of the house districts as well.

100+ years ago the type of system we are using made sense, but in modern times it is a trivial matter to add up the votes and provide for a true proportional representation so that every vote actually would matter.
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Boaty McBoatface
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bjlillo wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
And you don't believe in using any electoral advantage that helps your preferred candidates? It is funny how the GOP was perfectly happy with the way the electoral college worked in the past, especially in 2000, but now seems to think there's a fundamental problem with it.

For the record, I think awarding electors proportionally might be an idea worth exploring. However, a party machine doing it on a state-by-state basis solely to split the states where that party can gain an advantage - that's not adherence to principle, that's shady maneuvering.


What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.
Or that there is little or no evidence that voter fraud is a major problem.
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Rich Shipley
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bjlillo wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
And you don't believe in using any electoral advantage that helps your preferred candidates? It is funny how the GOP was perfectly happy with the way the electoral college worked in the past, especially in 2000, but now seems to think there's a fundamental problem with it.

For the record, I think awarding electors proportionally might be an idea worth exploring. However, a party machine doing it on a state-by-state basis solely to split the states where that party can gain an advantage - that's not adherence to principle, that's shady maneuvering.


What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.


From what I recall, many Democrats said they would be OK with verifying identities for voting if it was done in a way that encouraged more eligible people to vote rather than less.
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Greg Michealson
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bjlillo wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
And you don't believe in using any electoral advantage that helps your preferred candidates? It is funny how the GOP was perfectly happy with the way the electoral college worked in the past, especially in 2000, but now seems to think there's a fundamental problem with it.

For the record, I think awarding electors proportionally might be an idea worth exploring. However, a party machine doing it on a state-by-state basis solely to split the states where that party can gain an advantage - that's not adherence to principle, that's shady maneuvering.


What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.


*fart noise*
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Boaty McBoatface
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bjlillo wrote:
mrspank wrote:
*fart noise*


Yes, shitting on voters is the typical response of Democrats.
Rather then trying to ignore then, that is so much better.
 
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Rich Shipley
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bjlillo wrote:
rshipley wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
And you don't believe in using any electoral advantage that helps your preferred candidates? It is funny how the GOP was perfectly happy with the way the electoral college worked in the past, especially in 2000, but now seems to think there's a fundamental problem with it.

For the record, I think awarding electors proportionally might be an idea worth exploring. However, a party machine doing it on a state-by-state basis solely to split the states where that party can gain an advantage - that's not adherence to principle, that's shady maneuvering.


What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.


From what I recall, many Democrats said they would be OK with verifying identities for voting if it was done in a way that encouraged more eligible people to vote rather than less.


You must be imagining that because when I pointed out that's what has actually happened in states where voter ID has been enacted, the Democrats still opposed the idea. It's unfortunate that they want to disenfranchise people for their own electoral advantage. It really is a despicable thing to see.


You "pointing something out" isn't usually very convincing.
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Shawn Fox
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slatersteven wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.
Or that there is little or no evidence that voter fraud is a major problem.


No one has ever broken into my house but I still lock my doors and have an alarm system. Clearly requiring voters to have proper identification hurts the democrats (but only very slightly). It is still the right thing to do and it is highly irresponsible of the dems to insist otherwise.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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sfox wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.
Or that there is little or no evidence that voter fraud is a major problem.


No one has ever broken into my house but I still lock my doors and have an alarm system. Clearly requiring voters to have proper identification hurts the democrats (but only very slightly). It is still the right thing to do and it is highly irresponsible of the dems to insist otherwise.
It may be illogical (and possibly founded upon dogey assumptions) but it is not irresponsible to oppose a law that addresses something that is not a problem.

You have never been burgled, but many have. Have any US elections been turned due to voter fraud?
 
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Rich Shipley
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sfox wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

What I've learned here in RSP is that Democrats have no regard for the integrity of elections, even at the individual level. They oppose any efforts to verify the identity of voters or the eligibility of voters. Their excuses have been so flimsy that the only reasonable explanation is that they believe the cheating helps them. When one party has decided that's how they want to roll, you have to respond in kind or be rolled over.
Or that there is little or no evidence that voter fraud is a major problem.


No one has ever broken into my house but I still lock my doors and have an alarm system. Clearly requiring voters to have proper identification hurts the democrats (but only very slightly). It is still the right thing to do and it is highly irresponsible of the dems to insist otherwise.


Democrats insist on is minimizing the effect on eligible voters. They also point out that there was no emergency requiring quick action on the issue.

Rhode Island passed a bipartisan bill that puts much less of a burden on people currently without IDs. It also phased it in over a few years to allow people time to adapt. Pennsylvania, on the other hand, put out a piece of crap that didn't work to "allow Governor Romney to win the state" according to the guy that got it passed.
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Michael Taylor
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Why can't we all just get along?
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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happyjosiah wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I'm glad the liberals have taken the high road on gerrymandering.


The whole business disgusts me and this is exactly why. Sure, the GOP are the bad guys right now, but as soon as the pendulum swings, the left are just as likely to take the low road.


This was not the Democratic response in the 1980s when they had just lost most of the post 1964 presidential races. Instead, they generally shifted to the right. Same thing with Republicans in the 1950s, who, rather than play with the electoral college, instead shifted to the left.

This is unprecedented and only adds to the evidence that the current Republican party is the most vile, ruthless, and undemocratic political force since the southern secessionists. Part of it is ideological. The parties of the past were more interested in passing bills and holding office instead of burning "heretics" for (gasp) shaking hands with Obama. If you believe you have the one true answer for life, the universe, and everything, then you are willing to do whatever is necessary to secure your noble dream. Also, even if you lose we have a nice job for you at those charming oxymorons we call think tanks. Or a spot in the media. Or a speaking tour. Really, once you are elected, the sky's is the limit. Makes me long for the days in jolly olde England when the price for political failure was execution.

All we can hope for is that the GOP's dreams are dashed upon the rocks before they, like Jefferson Davis, choose the "Fort Sumter option."
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Rich S
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slatersteven wrote:
Have any US elections been turned due to voter fraud?

It's hard to say since there is no effective way to go through tens of millions of ballots and verify each and every voter. Can you say definitively that no election has ever been turned due to voter fraud? No you can't because there is no effective way to check.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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If voter ID efforts were combined with efforts to reconcile and regularize all the various databases that are relevant to whether someone is eligible to vote, instead of being primarily a mechanism for turning people away at the polls, I might be more sympathetic.

The "voter fraud" incidents that BJ has so meticulously recounted in Milwaukee were not, by and large, the kinds of incidents that a photo ID would prevent. They were the result of poor record-keeping and terrible or non-existent coordination between various agencies and their information systems (lists of felons, vital records databases, etc.). The number of such incidents is relatively minuscule, and the number that involve someone pretending to be someone they are not - the kind of thing that a photo ID would address - are vanishingly small.
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Quote:
Florida, the largest swing state, won't go along with changing the Electoral College if Florida House Speaker Will Weatherford has any say (and he has a major say).

"To me, that's like saying in a football game, 'We should have only three quarters, because we were winning after three quarters and they beat us in the fourth," Weatherford, a Republican, told the Herald/Times. "I don't think we need to change the rules of the game, I think we need to get better."
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Drew1365 wrote:
You're gunnin' for a job at NBC, aren't you?

Well, you already took that one at Fantasy Land.
 
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