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Rise and Decline of the Third Reich» Forums » General

Subject: Crisis Time! rss

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Caleb Wynn
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Here is the scoop!

I recently purchased a second edition copy of the game (quite cheap honestly, it came to about $11 bucks) and upon inventorying the pieces have found that the game is missing 4 US counters and all but one Turkish counter.

This sucks! So, my question is this: Should I buy another copy and just go with the 3rd edition game? These go for quite a bit more, but is the money worth it? I have a group of four gearing up to start the game in February.

Perhaps it would be easier to print out some counters on paper and just glue them to cardboard?

Does anyone have any spare pieces they could possibly part with (I would be willing to compensate)?

Not sure what to do at this point and am looking for some feedback.

Also, as an aside, what are the differences between the 2nd edition counters and the first edition counters?

Are the new fourth edition rules "compatible" with a second edition set (my map is first edition)? I know about the map changes, and those seem like things I can do a player aid for.

What would YOU do? Buy a second cheap copy of the second edition to play with, or go with a (by god it better be) complete 3rd/4th edition copy?

Thanks for your help!

- A New Player
 
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Steve Willows
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You have a group of four?

Spare no expense.

And I'm jealous.

4th Edition all the way but in truth you could get by with 3rd + errata.

Four willing players though! Roll out red carpets and sacrifice your firstborn; you, my friend, are on the verge of wargaming nirvana!

Excuse me... I'm overcome. I must retire and meditate.
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Patrick Bauer
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Sidewynnder wrote:
Here is the scoop!

I recently purchased a second edition copy of the game (quite cheap honestly, it came to about $11 bucks) and upon inventorying the pieces have found that the game is missing 4 US counters and all but one Turkish counter.

This sucks! So, my question is this: Should I buy another copy and just go with the 3rd edition game? These go for quite a bit more, but is the money worth it? I have a group of four gearing up to start the game in February.

Perhaps it would be easier to print out some counters on paper and just glue them to cardboard?

Does anyone have any spare pieces they could possibly part with (I would be willing to compensate)?

Not sure what to do at this point and am looking for some feedback.

Also, as an aside, what are the differences between the 2nd edition counters and the first edition counters?

Are the new fourth edition rules "compatible" with a second edition set (my map is first edition)? I know about the map changes, and those seem like things I can do a player aid for.

What would YOU do? Buy a second cheap copy of the second edition to play with, or go with a (by god it better be) complete 3rd/4th edition copy?

Thanks for your help!

- A New Player


Not having the Turkish counters is not necessarily a deal breaker, you can substitute the Spanish counters for the Turks...unless they're both in play at the same time. As for the Yanks, that can be a problem. By the time the US enters, you should not need most of your regular minor counters. While there are no minor equivalents to the US counters, you should be able to make do (since it's only four) with them just remembering their values. Or you could (for sooth) write on the back of them.

Just suggestions there.

You can post here: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/150255/item/2408333?commen... and hope some soul is willing to part with counters.

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Caleb Wynn
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Thanks for the tip Patrick. I posted a request to the spare parts list. We will see what happens. Worst comes to worst I will break down and create the missing counters or possibly just spring for a second copy of the game. My first double dip! shake
 
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Caleb Wynn
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Scrogdog wrote:
You have a group of four?

Spare no expense.

And I'm jealous.

4th Edition all the way but in truth you could get by with 3rd + errata.

Four willing players though! Roll out red carpets and sacrifice your firstborn; you, my friend, are on the verge of wargaming nirvana!

Excuse me... I'm overcome. I must retire and meditate.


It looks like we will be starting early February. I am contemplating writing an AAR with photos. I want to get everyone to give their input and thoughts as to what was going on in their minds with their decisions. Sort of a group AAR.

It should be interesting with us young, new budding grognards bumbling through a classic.
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Doug Poskitt
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I've got spare counters for the US and Turks. Geek mail me and I'll arrange to send them to you if you still need them.

Good luck to the four of you. It's a great game.

I will reiterate points made above - go with the 4th Edition. The counters you have are OK, the 4th Ed eulebook can be downloaded here on BGG ... the only problem is you will have the 1st Ed mapboard, and that isn't current (I think the 3rd/4th Eds use a 2nd Ed mapboard) due to some mapboard corrections made.

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Thomas Huber-Wehner
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dougposkitt wrote:
... the only problem is you will have the 1st Ed mapboard, and that isn't current (I think the 3rd/4th Eds use a 2nd Ed mapboard) due to some mapboard corrections made.



You are right, 3rd/4th Eds uses the 2nd Ed mapboard.
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Caleb Wynn
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dougposkitt wrote:
I've got spare counters for the US and Turks. Geek mail me and I'll arrange to send them to you if you still need them.

Good luck to the four of you. It's a great game.

I will reiterate points made above - go with the 4th Edition. The counters you have are OK, the 4th Ed eulebook can be downloaded here on BGG ... the only problem is you will have the 1st Ed mapboard, and that isn't current (I think the 3rd/4th Eds use a 2nd Ed mapboard) due to some mapboard corrections made.



Very generous. I am most appreciative. Geek mail sent. We are probably going to ride it out with the first edition map for the first game and then will move to try and find a copy with a second edition map for games thereafter.
 
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Caleb Wynn
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Is there a list of the changes made to the map between the first and second ediotons (of the map boards)?
 
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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Xenophon wrote:
dougposkitt wrote:
... the only problem is you will have the 1st Ed mapboard, and that isn't current (I think the 3rd/4th Eds use a 2nd Ed mapboard) due to some mapboard corrections made.



You are right, 3rd/4th Eds uses the 2nd Ed mapboard.


I'm not sure that is correct. I've not actually seen a 1st edition. I have read that there were changes to the map going from the first to the second edition. Since I do have both the second and third editions, I can confirm that the map, cards and rules are different, while the counters are the same. In fact, when the third edition was released, I recall AH offering an 'upgrade kit' that included just the rules, map and cards.
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fangotango
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I am pretty sure I have a 1st edition and a 3rd or 4th edition map. At least, that map conforms to the one used with Vassal.

Here is what I posted recently on another thread:

Quote:
A couple of map changes from 1st to 2nd edition that I have noticed:

In Britain, one cannot move from K24 (Harwich in 2nd, Dover in 1st) to K25 (Great Yarmouth) nor to hex L23 (southeast of London). Nor can naval units move from Harwich directly to L23, but must pass through L24 (Calais) to go from one to the other. This could make a difference in naval interception range.

Some red crossing arrows have been tidied up, so that the arrow clearly crosses hex-edges rather than within the hex. C27 - D27 in Scotland is one, and in Denmark I30 - I31 (from the mainland to the island leading to Copenhagen) and G32-F33 (mainland to northern island) are others. The land in each of these hexes is clearly marked to be on one side or the other of the hex edge with the crossing marker.

The British ones are probably the most significant.

My 1st edition map does not have hex-reference letters and numbers, [which is why I think it is 1st edition].

I hope I don't understand any of these incorrectly.
 
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Doug Poskitt
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If one gets hold of either a) Gen Vol 18/5 or b) Gamer's Guide to Third Reich, they have an image page copy of the 2nd Ed mapboard inside, which the OP might use to identify such changes.

 
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E Butler
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You need 3d/4th. I have a second somewhere, I think that some of the beach hexes are different.
 
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dougposkitt wrote:
If one gets hold of either a) Gen Vol 18/5 or b) Gamer's Guide to Third Reich, they have an image page copy of the 2nd Ed mapboard inside, which the OP might use to identify such changes.


This raises an interesting question regarding terminology. The map on the back of the Gamer's Guide does not specifically refer to it being '2nd edition', although it does mention ambiguities in the '1st edition' map having been corrected. The GG map does correspond to the one that was included with the 3rd edition of the game.

However, in text accompanying the map in the General 18/5 article, that same map is described as being the '2nd edition' map. So from that I deduce that there are only 2 versions of the map. I usually use the term 'edition' as it relates to the 'game' edition. If one looks at it from the perspective of specific components (ignoring the box!) I believe we have:

4 editions of the rules

The 2nd edition of the rules was, I believe, a 'clean up' of the 1st edition. The 3rd edition was a major overhaul, with substantial rules changes. The 4th edition was another 'clean up' of the 3rd edition rules, with errata incorporated.

2 editions of the map

The 1st and 2nd editions of the game used the 1st edition map. The 3rd and 4th then used the 2nd edition map.

2 editions of the cards

Again, the card changed from the 2nd to 3rd edition of the game.

1 edition of the counters

AFAIK the counters did not change, from 1st to 4th game editions.


If anyone has definite information contradicting any of this, please post it.

p.s. the General article in 18/5 appears to have a summary of changes to the map, although I'm not sure how comprehensive it is.
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Aleksandar Pesic
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Crisis Solved!
Here is the scan of the lost Americans:

http://www.thewargamer.com/Scans/ThirdReich_AH3.jpg
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Caleb Wynn
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I was able to get access to some of the version revision articles from the General, so I will be sifting through those soon. They were linked in the ConSimWorld forum [geekurl=http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?7@@.ee6e9c0/607]here.[/geekurl]

The articles start in post 588.
 
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