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Subject: So why is china letting NK develop 6k range nukes right next door. rss

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Mac Mcleod
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I mean seriously- NK could turn on China tomorrow. If it has five or six nukes, china's only option would be to nuke NK because any massed land army or navy would be toast for a nuclear warhead.

I never thought of it before.. has anyone else considered this?

NK is so close to china they probably wouldn't be able to prevent losing a major city or two.

Perhaps they think NK will reliably point the things at the U.S. forever.
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Snoo Py
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Didn't you know? CN and NK are akin at pawning the US. Duh!

More seriously, unless a country has the capacity to blanket the planet with its warheads (only 2 or 3 countries have this capacity), the interest of nukes is to gain regional political power, and to be a deterrent to menacing nations.
 
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If NK is coming after any Western Power, it's Japan who has to worry. Those two have historical 'issues' that make our meddling look tepid.
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David desJardins
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China doesn't want North Korea to develop nuclear weapons. I think the question would be, what do you think they should do to stop them? Raising tensions with the crazy guys on your border with nuclear weapons isn't necessarily an improvement.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Because Americas is so good at drawing attention away from China, and NK has more claims on SK than it does China. Simply put NK is not (at this time ) a threat to China.
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I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the whole North Korea thing. Is it just me or is this just yet more stylistic, sensational dramatization of the news by the media yet once again. It seems to me we go through this crap with N. Korea every few years since the early 90's. The UN passes meaningless resolutions which N. Korea ignores then makes all kinds of wild claims about how awesome they are and the US better watch out.

It seems to me that the UN, the US and N. Korea are like the drunk guys in the bar running their mouths to put on a big show, none of them really want to get in a fight and it is nothing but a bunch of hot air.
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What furthers China's interests more, a bat shit crazy north Korea posturing and preening or a united capitalist korean peninsula powerhouse? The key to this gambit is keeping North Korea "relatively harmless" so a violent problem that warrants a violent solution doesn't develop. I imagine it's a tough balancing act, especially when one variable (NK leadership) is so volatile.
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David desJardins
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Ogsponge wrote:
Is it just me or is this just yet more stylistic, sensational dramatization of the news by the media yet once again.


It's just you. Actually our media in the US doesn't talk about North Korea much at all, certainly not in proportion to the pretty grave threat they pose to many countries (including the US).
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Lance Peterson
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China is not the country that North Korea has it's sights set on - http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/23/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear...

But as others have pointed out in another post, since the U.S. is to only one to have actually used nuclear weapons against another country, we are not supposed to try to limit other countries in the development and use of the same. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, f'ing nukes for everybody, then we will all be safe.

Stupid, stupid, stupid shake

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Mac Mcleod
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I hear that NK and China are currently okay-- but give NK six ballistic nukes and their attitude towards China *could* change rapidly. Not to be pro-U.S. but how about "give us stuff china or we nuke you."


Agree on the NK / U.S. comments above. The U.S. doesn't think about NK too much. I only thought about it because NK just tested a 6k range missile. I'm sure we mostly just want to keep a lid on it so there isn't another korean war. And plus we don't want to be in a war with China. We'd much rather trade with them.

Perhaps now that the expansionist communist rhetoric is generally dying down in the world the Chinese will prefer an NK they could trade with too.

And then I thought but wait.. while that may put LA in range, it puts ALL of China in range and went hmmmmm.



 
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David desJardins
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maxo-texas wrote:
Agree on the NK / U.S. comments above. The U.S. doesn't think about NK too much. I only thought about it because NK just tested a 6k range missile. I'm sure we mostly just want to keep a lid on it so there isn't another korean war. And plus we don't want to be in a war with China. We'd much rather trade with them.


The other big threat from North Korea is proliferation of their nuclear weapons technology to non-state actors.
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Mac Mcleod
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DaviddesJ wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Agree on the NK / U.S. comments above. The U.S. doesn't think about NK too much. I only thought about it because NK just tested a 6k range missile. I'm sure we mostly just want to keep a lid on it so there isn't another korean war. And plus we don't want to be in a war with China. We'd much rather trade with them.


The other big threat from North Korea is proliferation of their nuclear weapons technology to non-state actors.


Exactly... which could also counter to China's oil interests.

I'm sure the chinese most likely have very smart people who've considered the angle of NK not being their friend... but perhaps they are caught up in group think and don't even see the possibility.

I lost track of if the new kid is still leader. There was talk that the military might drop him during the fall. In any case, I'm assuming they are not as crazy right now as they were under Kim Il.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
I mean seriously- NK could turn on China tomorrow. If it has five or six nukes, china's only option would be to nuke NK because any massed land army or navy would be toast for a nuclear warhead.
...
NK is so close to china they probably wouldn't be able to prevent losing a major city or two.
...

The chart at the right is effects of a fission bomb, comparable to what was used against Japan. But Japanese cities were very dense and generally very fragile. Still, note that what is now the Hiroshima Peace Memorial was left largely intact, despite being very near the hypocenter (commonly, ground zero).

These are the kind of bombs North Korea has, not thermonuclear fusion bombs, which would still only expand the radii by 2-5 times. (Bombs expand in a hemisphere, so a doubling of the distance needs 8 times the power.)

The severe damage radius (1.25 miles) gives an area of about 5 square miles:

Los Angeles MSA: 4,850 sq. mi.
Beijing: 6,487 sq mi

Terrible weapons to be sure, but pinpricks to either city, while North Korea's government, at least, would be totally destroyed. It's also somewhat doubtful that North Korea could successfully launch all its missiles, that they would get through US Navy missile defenses, and whether they could strike accurately enough to nuke anything but suburbs, mountains, or ocean.

This is not the situation of the US and the USSR throwing thousands of megaton-plus fusion bombs around.

(Excuse the gaming reference, below.)

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Davey Jones
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are you f'in kidding me?

NK is not capable of manufacturing nukes of any kind other then a dirty bomb.
do you have any idea how much money it costs to develop a delivery system?

NK can only manage to feed its soldiers by starving its civilian population.
if they were to send their army anywhere at all, it would fall instantly
for them not being able to maintain even the shortest supply lines.

that's how poor they are, and then there is the isolation.
did u know that among the more privileged citizens the most impressive technology available to them is a tape recorder?
did u know they present this to foreign visitors with an elaborate explanation about what wonderful new possibilities such a device can
offer education?

i'm sure lil' kim the 3rd knows about how the rest of the world is faring technology wise, but wtf does he have to offer in trade?

i don't see how there is any way NK could ever develop a laptop, let alone a nuclear delivery system...
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David desJardins
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Euroncrowseye wrote:
NK doesn't pose much of a threat as far as I'm aware


Why isn't it bad news for the developed world if North Korea delivers nuclear weapons technology to nonstate actors?
 
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Mac Mcleod
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DaveyJones6911 wrote:
are you f'in kidding me?

NK is not capable of manufacturing nukes of any kind other then a dirty bomb.
do you have any idea how much money it costs to develop a delivery system?

NK can only manage to feed its soldiers by starving its civilian population.
if they were to send their army anywhere at all, it would fall instantly
for them not being able to maintain even the shortest supply lines.

that's how poor they are, and then there is the isolation.
did u know that among the more privileged citizens the most impressive technology available to them is a tape recorder?
did u know they present this to foreign visitors with an elaborate explanation about what wonderful new possibilities such a device can
offer education?

i'm sure lil' kim the 3rd knows about how the rest of the world is faring technology wise, but wtf does he have to offer in trade?

i don't see how there is any way NK could ever develop a laptop, let alone a nuclear delivery system...


So the U.S. should be happy to let Cuba (puerto rico, dominican republic, belize) develop dirty nukes if they were threatening Russia with them?

I get the point about "size of a bee sting compared to modern cities".
But today's enemy is tomorrow's friend.. and vice versa.



 
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Boaty McBoatface
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maxo-texas wrote:
DaveyJones6911 wrote:
are you f'in kidding me?

NK is not capable of manufacturing nukes of any kind other then a dirty bomb.
do you have any idea how much money it costs to develop a delivery system?

NK can only manage to feed its soldiers by starving its civilian population.
if they were to send their army anywhere at all, it would fall instantly
for them not being able to maintain even the shortest supply lines.

that's how poor they are, and then there is the isolation.
did u know that among the more privileged citizens the most impressive technology available to them is a tape recorder?
did u know they present this to foreign visitors with an elaborate explanation about what wonderful new possibilities such a device can
offer education?

i'm sure lil' kim the 3rd knows about how the rest of the world is faring technology wise, but wtf does he have to offer in trade?

i don't see how there is any way NK could ever develop a laptop, let alone a nuclear delivery system...


So the U.S. should be happy to let Cuba (puerto rico, dominican republic, belize) develop dirty nukes if they were threatening Russia with them?

I get the point about "size of a bee sting compared to modern cities".
But today's enemy is tomorrow's friend.. and vice versa.



America views Cuba as hostile, and Cuba has been allied with America's enemy's. Really not seeing the comparison here.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
DaveyJones6911 wrote:
are you f'in kidding me?

NK is not capable of manufacturing nukes of any kind other then a dirty bomb.
do you have any idea how much money it costs to develop a delivery system?

NK can only manage to feed its soldiers by starving its civilian population.
if they were to send their army anywhere at all, it would fall instantly
for them not being able to maintain even the shortest supply lines.

that's how poor they are, and then there is the isolation.
did u know that among the more privileged citizens the most impressive technology available to them is a tape recorder?
did u know they present this to foreign visitors with an elaborate explanation about what wonderful new possibilities such a device can
offer education?

i'm sure lil' kim the 3rd knows about how the rest of the world is faring technology wise, but wtf does he have to offer in trade?

i don't see how there is any way NK could ever develop a laptop, let alone a nuclear delivery system...


So the U.S. should be happy to let Cuba (puerto rico, dominican republic, belize) develop dirty nukes if they were threatening Russia with them?

I get the point about "size of a bee sting compared to modern cities".
But today's enemy is tomorrow's friend.. and vice versa.



America views Cuba as hostile, and Cuba has been allied with America's enemy's. Really not seeing the comparison here.


I think you missed the point since it is hypothetical.

IF Cuba were "friendly" to the USA but bat shit crazy. And they wanted to develop ballistic nuclear weapons to threaten Russia. Would it be in our interest (heck, even rational) to let Cuba (or any of the other countries listed above) do so?


 
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Boaty McBoatface
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maxo-texas wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
DaveyJones6911 wrote:
are you f'in kidding me?

NK is not capable of manufacturing nukes of any kind other then a dirty bomb.
do you have any idea how much money it costs to develop a delivery system?

NK can only manage to feed its soldiers by starving its civilian population.
if they were to send their army anywhere at all, it would fall instantly
for them not being able to maintain even the shortest supply lines.

that's how poor they are, and then there is the isolation.
did u know that among the more privileged citizens the most impressive technology available to them is a tape recorder?
did u know they present this to foreign visitors with an elaborate explanation about what wonderful new possibilities such a device can
offer education?

i'm sure lil' kim the 3rd knows about how the rest of the world is faring technology wise, but wtf does he have to offer in trade?

i don't see how there is any way NK could ever develop a laptop, let alone a nuclear delivery system...


So the U.S. should be happy to let Cuba (puerto rico, dominican republic, belize) develop dirty nukes if they were threatening Russia with them?

I get the point about "size of a bee sting compared to modern cities".
But today's enemy is tomorrow's friend.. and vice versa.



America views Cuba as hostile, and Cuba has been allied with America's enemy's. Really not seeing the comparison here.


I think you missed the point since it is hypothetical.

IF Cuba were "friendly" to the USA but bat shit crazy. And they wanted to develop ballistic nuclear weapons to threaten Russia. Would it be in our interest (heck, even rational) to let Cuba (or any of the other countries listed above) do so?


Is NK bat shit crazy enough to attack the USA?
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
Is NK bat shit crazy enough to attack the USA?


Its leaders are. Under the right circumstances.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Is NK bat shit crazy enough to attack the USA?


Its leaders are. Under the right circumstances.
Sorry but as far as I am aware they have never attacked the USA. Nor are they any more bat shit about their anti-US rhetoric then the USA is about it's anti-NK rhetoric.
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Is NK bat shit crazy enough to attack the USA?


Its leaders are. Under the right circumstances.
Sorry but as far as I am aware they have never attacked the USA.


Why did you change the question? You ask would they, not have they? However, the idea that North Korea has not attacked the US is absurd. One can list dozens of incidents, including most famously the attack on the USS Pueblo.

Quote:
Nor are they any more bat shit about their anti-US rhetoric then the USA is about it's anti-NK rhetoric.


This is also absurd. You look like a fool for saying such nonsense.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Is NK bat shit crazy enough to attack the USA?


Its leaders are. Under the right circumstances.
Sorry but as far as I am aware they have never attacked the USA.


Why did you change the question? You ask would they, not have they? However, the idea that North Korea has not attacked the US is absurd. One can list dozens of incidents, including most famously the attack on the USS Pueblo.
The USS Pueblo (it is claimed) was inside the nautical boarders of NK, and thus had invaded NK waters. Sorry but if that is true this was not an attack on the USA, but by it. That boarder may be disputed but it still means the US ignored NK warnings and violated Territory it claims.
Quote:


Quote:
Nor are they any more bat shit about their anti-US rhetoric then the USA is about it's anti-NK rhetoric.


This is also absurd. You look like a fool for saying such nonsense.
So they have not be called part of an Axis of Evil?
 
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David desJardins
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slatersteven wrote:
The USS Pueblo (it is claimed) was inside the nautical boarders of NK, and thus had invaded NK waters. Sorry but if that is true this was not an attack on the USA, but by it. That boarder may be disputed but it still means the US ignored NK warnings and violated Territory it claims.


You can claim anything but that doesn't make it true. In any case, it's only one of scores of attacks. Many under circumstances of even more documentary evidence, in and across the DMZ.

Quote:
So they have not be called part of an Axis of Evil?


The conduct of the North Korean leadership is evil. They have impoverished millions of their own people, the ones they haven't imprisoned. Famines regularly sweep the country. If you're going to opine some kind of moral equivalence between this brutal self-serving dictatorship, and US democracy, you're even more of a fool than I thought.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaviddesJ wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
The USS Pueblo (it is claimed) was inside the nautical boarders of NK, and thus had invaded NK waters. Sorry but if that is true this was not an attack on the USA, but by it. That boarder may be disputed but it still means the US ignored NK warnings and violated Territory it claims.


You can claim anything but that doesn't make it true. In any case, it's only one of scores of attacks. Many under circumstances of even more documentary evidence, in and across the DMZ.

Quote:
So they have not be called part of an Axis of Evil?


The conduct of the North Korean leadership is evil. They have impoverished millions of their own people, the ones they haven't imprisoned. Famines regularly sweep the country. If you're going to opine some kind of moral equivalence between this brutal self-serving dictatorship, and US democracy, you're even more of a fool than I thought.
I thought we were talking about it's international relations, not internal politics. What it does in it's own borders does not mean it is more (or less) likely to attack the USA.
 
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