Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Was there an official ruling on E3 Feedback Implants vs Bioroids? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matt - Conduit23
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Was playing with some friends tonight and I built two decks: a Criminal attempting to make use of the terrible Criminal breakers via Feedback Implants and an HB Bioroid deck using ALL the Bioroids + Stronger Together. I did not plan this, just happened to be two ideas I wanted to try (and my friend who is still learning wanted to play Gabriel).

So, as you can imagine, the second E3 Feedback Implants dropped he just rolled over all of my servers. It was a slaughter. We played it that the Feedback is recursive, which I assumed to be correct, but after facing it in person I have to say I really hope it is not. It seemed silly that one card could so handily counter an entire deck theme. It felt like it would be appropriately powerful (and still worth playing) if it were not recursive.

Anyway, I remember the issue being discussed to death here but I don't know if there was ever an official ruling. Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benedetto Loffredo
Italy
Portici (NA)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mdanuser wrote:
Anyway, I remember the issue being discussed to death here but I don't know if there was ever an official ruling. Thanks!


Here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10978277#10978277
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Searfoss
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, official ruling works the way you played it. On the other hand, HB will be getting a counter shortly in the form of Hourglass. At the very least, it will force the runner to actually have a breaker in play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mdanuser wrote:
Was playing with some friends tonight and I built two decks: a Criminal attempting to make use of the terrible Criminal breakers via Feedback Implants and an HB Bioroid deck using ALL the Bioroids + Stronger Together. I did not plan this, just happened to be two ideas I wanted to try (and my friend who is still learning wanted to play Gabriel).

I'll go slightly off-topic for a strategic discussion: I do not think that an all-Bioroid deck is viable right now. First, Stronger Together loses the Credits from Engineering the Future, which is quite a hit. Hopefully a future Corp economy card will be able to mitigate that (something more flexible than Melange). Next, you only have five Bioroids to work with. Janus 1.0 is prohibitively expensive. Sherlock 1.0 is limited (Trace, no end the run and only two subroutines for a high price). Viktor 1.0 is strictly early game. Heimdall 1.0 and Ichi 1.0 are excellent, but not enough to carry a whole deck. Finally, we only saw two Data Packs off Genesis, which means we got E3 (a hard-counter to Bioroids) without seeing the complementary Corp card (Hourglass, for example) that makes Bioroids powerful enough to warrant such a hard-counter.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Brooks
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
It is called E3 Feedback (which sounds pretty recursive). I too agree it is rather annoying to play against, but you will just have to have an Hourglass at the beginning of your superserver if you want to do anything against Criminal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donnie Clark
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
mdanuser wrote:
Was playing with some friends tonight and I built two decks: a Criminal attempting to make use of the terrible Criminal breakers via Feedback Implants and an HB Bioroid deck using ALL the Bioroids + Stronger Together. I did not plan this, just happened to be two ideas I wanted to try (and my friend who is still learning wanted to play Gabriel).

I'll go slightly off-topic for a strategic discussion: I do not think that an all-Bioroid deck is viable right now. First, Stronger Together loses the Credits from Engineering the Future, which is quite a hit. Hopefully a future Corp economy card will be able to mitigate that (something more flexible than Melange). Next, you only have five Bioroids to work with. Janus 1.0 is prohibitively expensive. Sherlock 1.0 is limited (Trace, no end the run and only two subroutines for a high price). Viktor 1.0 is strictly early game. Heimdall 1.0 and Ichi 1.0 are excellent, but not enough to carry a whole deck. Finally, we only saw two Data Packs off Genesis, which means we got E3 (a hard-counter to Bioroids) without seeing the complementary Corp card (Hourglass, for example) that makes Bioroids powerful enough to warrant such a hard-counter.


I've had good luck with Priority Req and Accelerated Betatest to get the cost prohibitive ice rezzed. The fallback that I found with the Stronger Together identity was that, in the face of the strength of that ICE, the +1 strength was mostly wasted and only really benefitted early game bioroids.

Looking at E3 as a fan of both Criminal and HB, I'd almost prefer that the effect of E3 came in the form of a Resource instead of Hardware so that it can be more easily countered with a tag n' trash.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How many tag effects are in your HB decks?

Be honest.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donnie Clark
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
byronczimmer wrote:
How many tag effects are in your HB decks?

Be honest.

None, but you knew that. And it's hardly the point.
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
riastradh wrote:
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.

Did you try Power Grid Overload? I was thinking of adding it to my HB deck as a counter to E3, I'm just not sure how effective it is (if at all...).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron s
msg tools
single doubt wrote:
Yeah, official ruling works the way you played it. On the other hand, HB will be getting a counter shortly in the form of Hourglass. At the very least, it will force the runner to actually have a breaker in play.


What card is this? I must've missed it
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Syphus wrote:
single doubt wrote:
Yeah, official ruling works the way you played it. On the other hand, HB will be getting a counter shortly in the form of Hourglass. At the very least, it will force the runner to actually have a breaker in play.


What card is this? I must've missed it

From AStudy in Static. Code Gate with three subroutines, all of which say "the runner loses a click".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
riastradh wrote:
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.

Did you try Power Grid Overload? I was thinking of adding it to my HB deck as a counter to E3, I'm just not sure how effective it is (if at all...).

You'd only be escalating the war for weak-counter card slots. Everyone loses that one!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El-ad David Amir
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
astroglide wrote:
IirionClaus wrote:
riastradh wrote:
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.

Did you try Power Grid Overload? I was thinking of adding it to my HB deck as a counter to E3, I'm just not sure how effective it is (if at all...).

You'd only be escalating the war for weak-counter card slots. Everyone loses that one!

I'm not sure, overload CAN be pretty good. Frying mem chips for fun and profit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donnie Clark
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
riastradh wrote:
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.

Did you try Power Grid Overload? I was thinking of adding it to my HB deck as a counter to E3, I'm just not sure how effective it is (if at all...).


I hadn't thought about using it, actually. It might be worth including if I try another Stronger Together deck - the last one put together was when WLA came out. I'd be most interested in how that trace goes between a funded HB and Criminal, although the more ideal position would be between a funded HB and broke Criminal; of course then I'd have less to sweat about with E3 on the table.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donnie Clark
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
astroglide wrote:
IirionClaus wrote:
riastradh wrote:
The point is that as a Resource it would still useful to the runner without allowing them to steamroll bioroid ICE with impunity until some time in the future when the right counter-card is released. The counter is already in the game, and HB need only plan for it.

Did you try Power Grid Overload? I was thinking of adding it to my HB deck as a counter to E3, I'm just not sure how effective it is (if at all...).

You'd only be escalating the war for weak-counter card slots. Everyone loses that one!

I'm not sure, overload CAN be pretty good. Frying mem chips for fun and profit.

Or a Toolbox.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin
United States
Creve Coeur
MO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IirionClaus wrote:
I'm not sure, overload CAN be pretty good. Frying mem chips for fun and profit.

I'll concede that PGO is better than E3. I think E3 is (currently) terrible.
riastradh wrote:
Or a Toolbox.

After you pre-emptively exceed their trace by 9 credits? :-|
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jordan Hall
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Syphus wrote:
single doubt wrote:
Yeah, official ruling works the way you played it. On the other hand, HB will be getting a counter shortly in the form of Hourglass. At the very least, it will force the runner to actually have a breaker in play.


What card is this? I must've missed it


Just for visual reference!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Trent
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
riastradh wrote:

Or a Toolbox.


Seldom profitable that way. Often fun.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt - Conduit23
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sportacus wrote:
mdanuser wrote:
Anyway, I remember the issue being discussed to death here but I don't know if there was ever an official ruling. Thanks!


Here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10978277#10978277

Thank you!

As for strategic discussion:

I didn't have any fantasies that Stronger Together all-Bioroids would be at all viable, I just wanted to try it. I was constantly poor and couldn't actually defend anything. Hooray!

I'm not sure I'd consider Hourglass a counter to E3. It will force them to actually install and use one (Code Gate) breaker at least.

But yeah, in the end, Engineering the Future is just too damn good. I shed a single tear when I realized I couldn't install Heimdall and gain 2 credits as my opening turn and be able to rez him like I could with EtF.

Might have to try running Power Grid Overload if I try this again, but I doubt I will until Hourglass/more Bioroids show up. Thanks all!

On the upside, Criminal with Imp and Vamp was super fun! devil
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.