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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hacan's Huldran and Nekro's Asmodai questions rss

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Two questions about two very different Representatives.

Question 1.

Hacan's Huldran: "When voting, each player who didn’t receive a Promissory Note must give you 1 TG or abstain."

He says "each player". That includes Hacan himself (just like for Saar's Melkov: if you vote the way you say, you get at least 1 TG).

Also, it is stated in the rules you may give TG to another player at any time. But not that you may give TG to yourself.

So, when playing Huldran and not receiving a PN, can Hacan vote?

Question 2.

Nekro's Asmodai: "Choose a player and outcome. If right, copy 1 Technology from him."

So Nekro guesses, and does indeed guess correct, he copies a tech. Yay. However, can he copy racial technologies this way?

Remember the text on Valefar Assimilator: "Gain this Technology by using your racial ability to copy a racial Technology an opponent has researched. You cannot copy a Technology that modifies his racial ability."

So is the only way to gain a racial tech for the Nekro to attack (their racial ability) or can Asmodai do it too?
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mikael mordai
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I would say yes to both...
 
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mordai wrote:
I would say yes to both...


Well, I 'would' say no to both... but I want to know what the rules really say.

After all, for Huldran's case:

- he does say "each player". He does not say "each other player" or "each player except you" or something like that
- you may not give yourself TG (not stated in the rules = not allowed)

So... seems he can't vote unless he gets a PN. Right?

(Therefore: I would say 'no' to him being able to vote.)

For Nekro's case:

- His racial tech says "you acquire me by using your racial ability"
- Asmodai's ability is not your racial ability

So... seems you can't use Asmodai to copy a racial tech. Right?

(Therefore: I would say 'no' to Asmodai being able to copy racial techs.)

What is your rules interpretation for saying 'yes' to both? Saying "I think it makes sense that way" is not going to be enough...
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mikael mordai
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I think you are over complicating the first one but after reading the nekro card i think you are right on the second one...you can allways send an email to ffg if you would like an officiel answer but it takes some time...
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Cody Holden
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Well, you're generally allowed to "give" yourself freely tradeable assets in games, so.. I'd say you can vote, for the first ability. It'd be a bit strange for a representative to cancel out its own ability to vote in council.

The second ability I haven't read, but it sounds like a no to me.
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jack of spades wrote:
Well, you're generally allowed to "give" yourself freely tradeable assets in games, so.. I'd say you can vote, for the first ability. It'd be a bit strange for a representative to cancel out its own ability to vote in council.

The second ability I haven't read, but it sounds like a no to me.


It may sound strange, but it sounding strange or striking you as odd is not a reason.

You could interpret Huldran's ability as being a stickler for bureaucratic nonsense and saying "no one can vote unless they're bribed somehow".

The rules say: "you may freely give TG to another player at any time". Nothing about giving it to yourself. The word "another" is specifically in there.
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Scott Lewis
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I would definitely allow the Hacan to vote in #1, regardless. While I can understand a strict reading could indicate otherwise, I think that's taking it a bit too literally. I'll bet if this were asked of FFG, they would confirm that the text is intended to only apply to other players, and not to punish the Hacan player.


As for #2, I would agree that the Nekro can use it to copy a Race-Specific Technology, as long as they still have one of their own two Valefar Assimilators left.
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Steve Fowler
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I would say no to the Nekro as it's his rep that gives him the copy not his racial ability.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Fargofootball wrote:
I would say no to the Nekro as it's his rep that gives him the copy not his racial ability.

That's a good point, Valefar Assimilator does say "Racial Ability". Hmmm...
 
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James Grider
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I'm gonna agree with Sig on #1. Especially if that councilor gives bonus votes (I don't remember if he does or not). Because if he gets bonus votes, what would be the point in getting those bonus points if his ability then just turns around and makes it so you can't vote?
 
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Keysdude wrote:
I'm gonna agree with Sig on #1. Especially if that councilor gives bonus votes (I don't remember if he does or not). Because if he gets bonus votes, what would be the point in getting those bonus points if his ability then just turns around and makes it so you can't vote?


Well, he can, if he receives 1 TG or 1 PN.

You just can not give yourself 1 TG or 1 PN, only other players. TG can be given freely, PN only during the bargaining and promissory notes step.
 
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There are no other Representatives that require something outside your own control to even vote; I highly doubt that would be the case with this one. It's meant to affect other players; without an official ruling otherwise, I do not believe it was meant to punish yourself as well. Otherwise, I cannot see this Rep ever really being used.
 
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