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Jeremy Buckmaster
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Just found out today about this whole face down cards in your archives. I always assumed it was like magic and what was in your archives was public knowledge. Heres my question, if Noise plays a medium and it makes you trash a card because its a virus, is the trashed card face up or face down in your archives??
 
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Ian Toltz
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If it's exposed to the runner at the time it's trashed, it goes faceup. Otherwise, it goes face down.
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Jeremy Buckmaster
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Then I guess my question is does Noise's ability reveal it when he plays a virus?
 
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Ian Toltz
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Does it say it does?
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Double Plus Undead
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VShadowHeart wrote:
Then I guess my question is does Noise's ability reveal it when he plays a virus?


No.

The way it works is, if the runner has seen it, it goes into archives face-up (e.g. runner pays the trash cost on an accessed card); if the runner hasn't seen it, it goes into archives face-down and sideways (e.g. corp discards, Noise's ability).

So, you still have to run on archives to see if there's anything good in there. The corp can look at the face-down cards any time they want; the runner can only look at them after a successful run on archives. At that time, all face-down cards go face-up, and the runner scores any agenda.
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Jeremy Buckmaster
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Thank you thank you thank you. This makes the corp SOOOOOO much stronger lol.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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VShadowHeart wrote:
Thank you thank you thank you. This makes the corp SOOOOOO much stronger lol.


Haha...I'm glad you think so. I'm getting my ass handed to me by Anarch right now.

So, yeah...if you're going against Noise, ice up archives. Protect ya neck.
 
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Jeremy Larner
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pirate_chef wrote:

The way it works is, if the runner has seen it, it goes into archives face-up (e.g. runner pays the trash cost on an accessed card); if the runner hasn't seen it, it goes into archives face-down and sideways (e.g. corp discards, Noise's ability).


This is certainly not how we play it. If the card is visible when it is trashed (i.e. it's either been rezzed or it's being accessed) it goes into the face up pile in the archives. Otherwise, it goes face down.

So, for example, while playing as Noise, I run R&D, accessing a Scorched Earth card. I want to deny my opponent that card, so using my next action I play Datasucker. The card is added to the face-down pile, even though I've seen it and know what it is.

In the case of Noise specifically, we've always played that his ability puts the top card of R&D into the archives face-down. Whether the runner has previously seen that card or not is irrelevant.
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Jadiel wrote:
In the case of Noise specifically, we've always played that his ability puts the top card of R&D into the archives face-down. Whether the runner has previously seen that card or not is irrelevant.


No, I agree. That's the way I play it, too.

Because the card is face-down when you trash it with Noise's ability, it goes in face down. But if it had been a Melange Mining that you had accessed, and you paid 1 to trash it, it would've gone in face up.

So, perhaps it is better to say that it goes in with the side that is currently facing the runner up.
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Benedetto Loffredo
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Jadiel wrote:
In the case of Noise specifically, we've always played that his ability puts the top card of R&D into the archives face-down. Whether the runner has previously seen that card or not is irrelevant.


There is an official ruling about Noise.

Cards should not change their 'state' when trashed:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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VShadowHeart wrote:
I always assumed it was like magic


Sigh. I wish Wizards would put this in the beginning of the Magic rules:

"The rules for Magic: The Gathering apply only to the game Magic: The Gathering. Other games have their own rules which are not these rules. Please do not attempt to play other games using the rules to Magic: The Gathering."
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Andy Mills
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VShadowHeart wrote:
I always assumed it was like magic


If you have rules questions in the future, this is likely to be your first mistake.
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
VShadowHeart wrote:
I always assumed it was like magic


Sigh. I wish Wizards would put this in the beginning of the Magic rules:

"The rules for Magic: The Gathering apply only to the game Magic: The Gathering. Other games have their own rules which are not these rules. Please do not attempt to play other games using the rules to Magic: The Gathering."


Wouldn't it be more useful for every other game to put that at the beginning of their rules?
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Ian Toltz
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
VShadowHeart wrote:
I always assumed it was like magic


Sigh. I wish Wizards would put this in the beginning of the Magic rules:

"The rules for Magic: The Gathering apply only to the game Magic: The Gathering. Other games have their own rules which are not these rules. Please do not attempt to play other games using the rules to Magic: The Gathering."


To be fair, Magic overall has some excellent rules, particularly when it comes to timing and things like triggered abilities. Whenever I run into a game that has ill-defined rules for such things, I feel like falling back to Magic's rules is the way to go to settle disputes in the absence of official rulings.

As an example in Netrunner, I really dislike the fact that there's nothing like the stack and triggered abilities don't exist independent of the card which caused them. So Femme Fatale and Tollbooth both have abilities which trigger when the ice is encountered; but Femme Fatale ends the encounter, and Tollbooth's effect never occurs even though it was triggered. I find that rule very counter-intuitive and inelegant.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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Asmor wrote:
As an example in Netrunner, I really dislike the fact that there's nothing like the stack and triggered abilities don't exist independent of the card which caused them. So Femme Fatale and Tollbooth both have abilities which trigger when the ice is encountered; but Femme Fatale ends the encounter, and Tollbooth's effect never occurs even though it was triggered. I find that rule very counter-intuitive and inelegant.


It's funny, if you use a stack, people accuse you of making your game "just like Magic", but if you don't, they ask "why can't they make it just like in Magic?" Garfield didn't want to be accused of rehashing old designs, which is why he took such a different direction with Netrunner.

I think it makes sense if you understand the game. Bypassing allows you to skip past the ice. If you've skipped past the ice, how can it toll you?
 
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Allan Clements
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If Noise looks at a card on R&D, then plays a virus to trash it. It does go into the face down archives, however since the corp can look at those at any time, you might as well put it in the face up pile.

I very much doubt we will get cards which specifically target the face down cards in the archives.
 
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Kamakaze wrote:
If Noise looks at a card on R&D, then plays a virus to trash it. It does go into the face down archives,


You sure about that?
 
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Ony Moose
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Asmor wrote:

As an example in Netrunner, I really dislike the fact that there's nothing like the stack and triggered abilities don't exist independent of the card which caused them. So Femme Fatale and Tollbooth both have abilities which trigger when the ice is encountered; but Femme Fatale ends the encounter, and Tollbooth's effect never occurs even though it was triggered. I find that rule very counter-intuitive and inelegant.


Actually there is a special rule about that for bypass, Bypassing an ice skips all pending triggers which triggered when you encountered the ice, its in the FAQ but not in the base game.

Quote:

“Bypass”
When an effect allows the Runner to “bypass” a piece of ice,
he immediately passes that ice and continues the run. Any
subroutines on the ice bypassed are not broken. Bypassing
prevents any unresolved conditional abilities that met their
trigger condition when the ice was encountered from resolving.
 
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Andy Mills
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pirate_chef wrote:
Kamakaze wrote:
If Noise looks at a card on R&D, then plays a virus to trash it. It does go into the face down archives,


You sure about that?


Completely.
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Ian Toltz
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manydills wrote:
pirate_chef wrote:
Kamakaze wrote:
If Noise looks at a card on R&D, then plays a virus to trash it. It does go into the face down archives,


You sure about that?


Completely.


This is correct. It only goes to the archives face up is it's exposed to the runner as it's going to the archives.
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Double Plus Undead
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Asmor wrote:
manydills wrote:
pirate_chef wrote:
Kamakaze wrote:
If Noise looks at a card on R&D, then plays a virus to trash it. It does go into the face down archives,


You sure about that?


Completely.


This is correct. It only goes to the archives face up is it's exposed to the runner as it's going to the archives.


Okay, that is correct.

I was posting late, and read that wrong. For some reason, when I read "plays a virus to trash it", I was thinking of Imp's ability.
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