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Subject: Deluxe version should be split rss

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Aingeru Malkav
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Please, peolple could you help with this issue?

Admin are requesting reasons to split this game in a similar way Puerto Rico/Puerto Rico (with two expansions) or The Great Battles of Alexander/The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition or War of the Ring (First Edition)/War of the Ring Collector's Edition or


skelebone wrote:
Regarding your correction to:

Name: Twilight Struggle

Note:
Quote:
The deluxe version should be split from the previous version as it includes REVISED rules.


If I\'m going to consider splitting an entry into two different things, then I need specific reasons of how they differ; i.e. tell me what is different between the editions so I can make a determination of how to handle this.


Aingeru wrote:
Mainly:
- China Civil War
- New balanced USA opening
- Revised Aldrich Ames Card
- Corrected cards & counters
- New optional cards

If you have question about the differences, ask the users in the forums.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/834006/deluxe-version-vs-2nd...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/520198/differences-between-e...


skelebone wrote:
That's a fine list of bullet points, but that means nearly nothing to me because I've not played the game in any form. What I'm asking here is for a complete collection of information that's the basis of having a second entry here -- the War of the Ring, Game of Thrones, and other second edition entries were submitted as separate game items with information about the game and game-play, and what elements changed in the new edition that separated them from the previous edition. I need that for this as well. If you have knowledge about this game, and the reasons why it should be a separate game item, then please submit it in a form that I can use. I cannot craft a new game entry and begin splitting information from a short list of bullet-points that don't convey fundamental differences. I'm also not in the position to start doing research on this -- I have plenty on my plate to do on the site otherwise.

Scott
 
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
No, it should not be split. While there are slight differences, it is for all intents and purposes the same game. The only thing splitting would serve is to make it much harder to follow discussion. This is why we have VERSIONS that enable you to have different versions of the same game.
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Aingeru Malkav
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DeePee wrote:
No, it should not be split. While there are slight differences, it is for all intents and purposes the same game. The only thing splitting would serve is to make it much harder to follow discussion. This is why we have VERSIONS that enable you to have different versions of the same game.


Sorry but I do not agree, other games have been split for similar reasons... so why not this?
 
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Aingeru Malkav
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For example Citadels and Ohne Furcht und Adel
If I understand correctly the only differences are the new cards (quite similar to this game, but Twilight also has some rules changes...)
 
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
If they won't split World in Flames to show Final Edition as seperate from 1st to 5th edition, they won't split this.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
All the differences are optional, hugely minor or cosmetic. Using example of games that shouldn't have been split either to defend why TwS should be split is an impressive strawman.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Uhtoff wrote:
All the differences are optional, hugely minor or cosmetic. Using example of games that shouldn't have been split either to defend why TwS should be split is an impressive strawman.
Well said. There is no point to split TS unless you want to make things difficult for BGG users.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
killy9999 wrote:
Uhtoff wrote:
All the differences are optional, hugely minor or cosmetic. Using example of games that shouldn't have been split either to defend why TwS should be split is an impressive strawman.
Well said. There is no point to split TS unless you want to make things difficult for BGG users.


+1
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
I agree with the dissenters here... no need to split the game into two separate versions.

Plus just imagine the uproar if TS was the number one and two games on BGG?! devil
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Aingeru wrote:


Any chance you could turn your energy into merging these games? (If you want similar treatment for TS as for those games)
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Sylvain Martel
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Aingeru wrote:
The deluxe version should be split from the previous version as it includes REVISED rules.)


If that's enough to require a new entry into BGG, every wargames would have 34 entries.

I agree with all that it should not be split. It's not a new game, there are only minors revisions.

Edit: I also agree that the other "splitted" game should be merged. What a mess it makes.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
I agree that Twilight Struggle should not be split. The differences are too minor to be worth splitting. The Chinese Civil War is completely optional and was available before the deluxe edition was released. The new cards are all also optional. It is more convenient to have all the editions under a single entry.

It would be nice if BGG had a separate data field for games that allowed users to enter in brief descriptions of the differences between different editions of the same game. That would make researching edition differences easier than having to hunt for answers in the forums.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Aingeru wrote:
Sorry but I do not agree, other games have been splitted for similar reasons... so why not this?


Most splits have been for worse, I think. Sentinels of the Multiverse is great example. Sure, there is a minor rules difference in the new Enhanced edition, but it is still 99% the same game. Splitting the entries has had no positive effects, just negative ones such as making the rankings weird (multiple versions of the same game floating around) and dividing all rules/strategy discussions, reviews, sessions and videos under two entries.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Jayne Starlancer wrote:
It would be nice if BGG had a separate data field for games that allowed users to enter in brief descriptions of the differences between different editions of the same game. That would make researching edition differences easier than having to hunt for answers in the forums.

The Description and More Information fields in the main game page are editable, like the Description field in the version page.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Aingeru wrote:
Sorry but I do not agree, other games have been splitted for similar reasons... so why not this?


Without in any way implying anything about you as a person, I think your proposal is complete and utter bollocks.

In your opinion, what is the benefit of splitting Twilight Struggle into Twilight Struggle and Twilight Struggle Deluxe? (Do the box even say that it's the deluxe edition? Wasn't it just a new print run with slightly modified components?)
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Aingeru wrote:

Sorry but I do not agree, other games have been splitted for similar reasons... so why not this?


Why would you care?
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Aingeru wrote:


Any chance you could turn your energy into merging these games? (If you want similar treatment for TS as for those games)


+1

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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Difference between TS and TS deluxe:
- deluxe has nicer components including a mounted board
- deluxe has the optional variant of the Chinese civil war box printed right on the map rather than an overlay
- deluxe renamed some of the space race boxes
- deluxe added some optional cards

Actual game rule changes? None.
Actual map changes? None.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
A plot to usurp TS from the top rank....
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
I could go ither way on this but personally am slightly inclined to the split since I have the older version.
 
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Way too many split entires on BGG already. I hope this one isn't split as well.
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
shager wrote:
A plot to usurp TS from the top rank....


If we can get TS into a Bear Trap/Quagmire then Puerto Rico will finally have the fame it deserves. Now where do I place my IP to make it happen?

In all seriousness, I am against a split and this seems to be the majority here. How do we inform the admins of this?
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
CyberGarp wrote:
How do we inform the admins of this?


Look up, about four posts
 
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Aingeru wrote:


Any chance you could turn your energy into merging these games? (If you want similar treatment for TS as for those games)




Original plan... but I got too much rejections to keep on it, so I tried the other way...

I don't understand why Admins are not able to keep with the rules they made up themselves...
 
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Re: Deluxe version should be splitted
Yep, leave the TS entry the way it is. Merge the other games that shouldn't have been split. Versions are the way to go, splitting makes more problems than it solves.

edit: Although I don't agree with splitting, I would say that TS deluxe is just as different as some other game's special editions which are split (which is not much).
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