Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
86 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Universal Healthcare rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: Chit_Chat-Life [+] [View All]
Scott B
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
galad2003 wrote:
So I thought I would ask some of my fellow Geeks out there who live in countries that have Universal healthcare such as Canada, UK and Europe how you like it?

Every time the subject comes up here in the States we hear how awful it is and how you guys have to wait months for treatment. There is always a second hand account from someone who says people they know in Canada come to the US for our health care because the healthcare in Canada is so awful.

I was just curious to hear some first hand accounts rather than listen to Rush Limbaugh or some guy on the internet - who alwasy happens to have the same horror story that some conservative pundit is screaming about on the radio.

and if people are wondering, I am a pretty conservative guy but I actually favor Universal healthcare - if it is done right. I just don't see the US doing it right.

You're cruising, buddy. RSP, ho!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D S
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
galad2003 wrote:
So I thought I would ask some of my fellow Geeks out there who live in countries that have Universal healthcare such as Canada, UK and Europe how you like it?

Every time the subject comes up here in the States we hear how awful it is and how you guys have to wait months for treatment. There is always a second hand account from someone who says people they know in Canada come to the US for our health care because the healthcare in Canada is so awful.

I was just curious to hear some first hand accounts rather than listen to Rush Limbaugh or some guy on the internet - who alwasy happens to have the same horror story that some conservative pundit is screaming about on the radio.

and if people are wondering, I am a pretty conservative guy but I actually favor Universal healthcare - if it is done right. I just don't see the US doing it right.
In the UK, from what I've seen

- At the most general level, the vast majority of UK people love the NHS: it's been described as the nearest thing to our national religion, and we're fiercely protective of it.
- One step down, polls about 'how is the NHS doing?' over the 200s often showed that people think that the NHS is of low and falling standards
- One more step down, polls over 2000s about 'how have your experiences of the NHS been?' tended to get positive answers, and show improvements.


The media and the people I know tend to see the US depiction of the NHS as crazily wrong.


On the 'coming over the border from Canada' thing, there's clearly a point that univeral healthcare probably won't be able to get as short waiting times, or as smooth/pleasant an experience as if you're happy to pay for your care. But on the actual quality of care, NHS treatment often outperforms private treatment, essentially because the best doctors often want to work in the NHS, where you get more variety and more chance to research, although less money. Lots of private healthcare is for more routine or less essential treatments.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Bellevue
NE
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Yup. This issue is too political for Chit Chat, unless the universal healthcare covers bacon withdrawal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hiding Tiger
Australia
Parmelia
Western Australia
flag msg tools
Grrrrrrrrowf!
badge
Grrrrr aaarrrggghhh
Avatar
mbmb
On Australia's public health system.
Generally good, but similar to the UK we perceive that standards are falling - hospital expansions have not kept up with population growth, and hospitals are understaffed.

We handle emergency cases well. If you need treatment urgently you will get it.

Anything that's remotely optional or not life threatening is a different story. Most cosmetic type surgery is not available in the public system - with the exception of reparation of injury damage. Nose jobs, for example, can't be got for free. General public sentiment is OK with that. Things like hip replacements can be in the awkward in-between situation of being needed but not urgently, and that is where we are seeing the impact of insufficient hospital beds and low staffing. Waiting periods for that type of care can be long.

Not all medications are available on the public health system, either. There is always debate about what medications should and should not be.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom McPhee
Scotland
Glasgow/ Elgin/ Ullapool (Garve)
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll hopefully have time to post more later. I live and work in Scotland, and have used the nhs a fair bit over the years. It is a system with many flaws, but I think it is an excellent institution that on the whole works well. It is exceptionally reassuring to know that should I become unwell I will not be driven to bankruptcy. I will post more later, but would point out something at the moment- the NHS in England in particular is gradually being de nationalised.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trace
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cringing Dragon wrote:
On Australia's public health system.
Generally good, but similar to the UK we perceive that standards are falling - hospital expansions have not kept up with population growth, and hospitals are understaffed.

We handle emergency cases well. If you need treatment urgently you will get it.

Anything that's remotely optional or not life threatening is a different story. Most cosmetic type surgery is not available in the public system - with the exception of reparation of injury damage. Nose jobs, for example, can't be got for free. General public sentiment is OK with that. Things like hip replacements can be in the awkward in-between situation of being needed but not urgently, and that is where we are seeing the impact of insufficient hospital beds and low staffing. Waiting periods for that type of care can be long.

Not all medications are available on the public health system, either. There is always debate about what medications should and should not be.


True.

But we are encouraged to use both types of health care- Medi-care [universal] and private health cover [insurance]. taxpayers pay a levy [ yes it a tax but shhhh the 'man' doesn't think we know] of between 1 and 2% depending on income. If you have a private fund as well you are given a rebate for this at tax time. You can use either but not both at the same time.
some examples are it may cost some between $0-20 to visit your G.P.
I know children under 16 are covered by medicare, even for childhood vaccinations.
It can cost you nothing to have your child in a public hospital, I know I was taken by ambulance to the nearest one as my chosen one was a further 20 minutes away and there was no time [he was well but 8 weeks early]. my 2nd was in a private hospital and I was charged in excess of $8000 luckily almost all covered by Ins. I asked for a panadol=Tylenol and was charged $2 for 2!! all in all I am happy with our health care - and support its continuation.
but then Australia is not a capitalist country like the US and this is what we know just like your system is what you know and not many in either place will welcome a great change.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Smeltzer
United Kingdom
Leeds
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've had a fair amount of experience using the NHS.

I've been to A&E (that's Accident and Emergency, the equivalent of ER) a few times to get my head stitched or stapled back together or my limbs bandaged up. Don't remember it ever taking particularly long, but then I didn't have the misfortune to turn up on a busy Saturday night.

I've worn glasses since I was 18, and although the opticians were private I was happy to have a free eye test and about £25-£30 off the cost of specs courtesy of the NHS. I think I've never paid for an eye test - I've always had an HC2 form, you can get one of these if you're a full-time student, unemployed or on a low wage and it's valid for a year regardless of how your income changes.

I've heard plenty of horror stories in the press about people being unable to find NHS dentists, but I had no trouble. As I recall I looked up a number to phone online and the council arranged one for me. It's about five miles away (or three from where I lived then), but that's fine because it's convenient by train or bus and I only have to go twice a year.

Finally there's my main health problem - psoriatic arthritis. After a couple of winters of achy knees elbows I thought maybe there was more to this than just the weather, so I made an appointment to see a GP. My local surgery was a centre with several doctors and I'm not sure I saw the same one twice. Not that I wasn't given the option, I just asked to see whoever was available.

First GP had my blood sent away for testing. Second GP said my test results were pretty good, so I was probably okay, but I should get a second blood test. Third GP, when I described my symptoms, said that didn't seem normal and sent me to a specialist.

The specialist diagnosed me and since then I've found my treatment pretty good. I'm supposed to see them every six months, but it's usually more like eight or nine - those shocking delays you hear about. On the other hand I saw doctors and nurses several times at short notice early on because the first drug they put me on had side effects, and some of my symptoms weren't disappearing as quickly as hoped. We decided to switch.

As a postscript I'll mention that we hear horror stories from the US, of people dying from tooth abscesses because they couldn't afford to get them treated. I find that idea pretty scary.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Society of Watchers
United States
Killbuck
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lot of people say there are long waits in UHC countries, but the waits in the U.S. are also very long. You can have an appointment at 1:00 at the GP in the afternoon and not get in to see him for a couple of hours.

ER care here can be awfully long since that is the only health care many people in the U.S. get.

For a long time we were having a terrible problem with not enough doctors because the days where doctors were the rich has ended because of the costs of liability was so high and yet not enough people could afford to pay doctors. Many doctors opted to work for the hospitals so the burden of liability would be on the hospitals, but this has made things difficult for hospitals too. Doctors had to take a hit in pay this way though and are not independent like they used to be.

We have fixed part of the lack of health care workers by having a new type called nurse practitioners who are between RNs and MDs. They are able to prescribe medications and do basic health care. Things beyond their qualifications they can refer to others who are qualified.

The biggest horror stories you hear in the U.S. is that people have to go bankrupt and lose all they have because of medical bills if they have a serious health problem. This happens sometimes even if they have insurance. Sometimes insurance will drop people, however, "Obamacare" now prevents insurance companies from doing this.

Quality of care has also suffered unless you are wealthy and can pay for everything yourself (not through insurance).

This is just a beginning on the topic.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I had to deal with that horror while in England - it was awful. Conservative beliefs or not, it doesn't do what they want it to do, frankly.

And thanks to the crapulent new plans here, my current insurance just changed to "suck" mode - Thanks Obama! shake
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaky Ulnas
Canada
Steinbach
Manitoba
flag msg tools
Yet feet that wandering have gone
badge
Turn at last to home afar
Avatar
mbmb
Things are good and bad here. When I lived in Calgary (pop. 1,000,000) I needed a cancerous tumour removed and it was out within four days. Now I live in a small town and there are about 5000 people without a family doctor (roughly 10% of our catchment area). I've been told we need 20-25 more doctors in our town (by other doctors here).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Moved to RSP
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Valuable bathroom real estate!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Landstander wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
So I thought I would ask some of my fellow Geeks out there who live in countries that have Universal healthcare such as Canada, UK and Europe how you like it?

Every time the subject comes up here in the States we hear how awful it is and how you guys have to wait months for treatment. There is always a second hand account from someone who says people they know in Canada come to the US for our health care because the healthcare in Canada is so awful.

I was just curious to hear some first hand accounts rather than listen to Rush Limbaugh or some guy on the internet - who alwasy happens to have the same horror story that some conservative pundit is screaming about on the radio.

and if people are wondering, I am a pretty conservative guy but I actually favor Universal healthcare - if it is done right. I just don't see the US doing it right.

You're cruising, buddy. RSP, ho!


Who's his pimp?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
I'm pretty sure the issue in the USA centers more around not having a choice than it does around the efficiency (or lack of) that UHC provides. Of course you always have a choice no matter where you live, if you're sufficiently funded. Like most conservatives who have actually thought about this I am very supportive of health care being provided with some state and federal support for those who otherwise wouldn't have it or who simply choose not to pay for private insurance.

What seems to be happening here, with ObamaCare, is the forcing of unwilling taxpayers into a health care system they don't want to be a part of. That's the actual debate, but the media prefers to frame it as a bunch of conservative whack jobs not wanting Mexican farmworkers to get treated while also purposely denying good care to children and old people.

There's a scam being perpetrated. But not the one most people think.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kiren Maelwulf
Canada
Richmond
BC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Having being badly injured twice I can say I love Canada’s healthcare. If you get a doctor who is wishy-washy about scans and tests you can push for them yourself and the entire process is simple and free. The only significant wait I ever experienced was for a back specialist which took 6 months to get into, but during the wait a large variety of other resources were available at no cost. Honestly, I don’t know what I would have done without free healthcare, likely I would have been screwed.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 11 23-25 Feb 2018 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wytefang wrote:
I had to deal with that horror while in England - it was awful.


Well, our main intention with visiting Americans will be just to get them patched up enough to go home.

But some specifics, rather than vague "it was awful" wouldn't go amiss.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Valuable bathroom real estate!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
I'm pretty sure the issue in the USA centers more around not having a choice than it does around the efficiency (or lack of) that UHC provides. Of course you always have a choice no matter where you live, if you're sufficiently funded.


Exactly. The choice for people that didn't have it and couldn't afford it was no health care. Some 40 million Americans had that "choice".
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Simply put, when as a boy in the States I had a major accident that nearly killed me, my father who could no afford insurance had in the end to pay off those he could and declare bankruptcy with those who were unwilling to make deal to settle the bills. 20 years later, complications of that accident had me off work for a month as I recuperated from knee surgery. t s not really a bit deal. I could just concentrate on getting better without fearing financial ruin.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Dearlove
United Kingdom
Chelmsford
Essex
flag msg tools
SoRCon 11 23-25 Feb 2018 Basildon UK http://www.sorcon.co.uk
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
mileser wrote:
Lot of people say there are long waits in UHC countries, but the waits in the U.S. are also very long. You can have an appointment at 1:00 at the GP in the afternoon and not get in to see him for a couple of hours.


Which is still better than a couple months, eh?


And of course you have missed the point.

We're talking here about seeing a GP (general practitioner) the point of entry to the system for non-emergency cases. Usual practice: phone up, get a time - that day if called for. Turn up by then get seen roughly at time given. I've never seen a delay of as much as a couple of hours, but I don't go often. Months are an irrelevant timescale at this point in the system.

Now if the GP spots something serious, or doesn't know what the problem is, then you get referred to a specialist. Which may in turn lead to more appointments, and maybe major work (such as an operation). Delays there can run to months - but is highly dependent on what the complaint is, you may get instant action.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Valuable bathroom real estate!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
Simply put, when as a boy in the States I had a major accident that nearly killed me, my father who could no afford insurance had in the end to pay off those he could and declare bankruptcy with those who were unwilling to make deal to settle the bills. 20 years later, complications of that accident had me off work for a month as I recuperated from knee surgery. t s not really a bit deal. I could just concentrate on getting better without fearing financial ruin.


Ouch... that's a sad story. However, I'd like to point out that citizens of the United States should have the opportunity to declare bankruptcy to pay for their healthcare instead of having the government ensure that we're all covered.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mrspank wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Simply put, when as a boy in the States I had a major accident that nearly killed me, my father who could no afford insurance had in the end to pay off those he could and declare bankruptcy with those who were unwilling to make deal to settle the bills. 20 years later, complications of that accident had me off work for a month as I recuperated from knee surgery. t s not really a bit deal. I could just concentrate on getting better without fearing financial ruin.


Ouch... that's a sad story. However, I'd like to point out that citizens of the United States should have the opportunity to declare bankruptcy to pay for their healthcare instead of having the government ensure that we're all covered.



How does that make any sense? Why should people need to declare bankruptcy in such cases?

Besides, the bills don't magically disappear when bankruptcy occurs. Somebody else such has to eat the cost. In the case of health care, ultimately that backer who eats unpaid bills is the gov't at increased cost. Doesn't it make more sense for the gov't to pay less in order just to cover everybody than for it to pay far more for only a relatively few people?
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
mrspank wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I'm pretty sure the issue in the USA centers more around not having a choice than it does around the efficiency (or lack of) that UHC provides. Of course you always have a choice no matter where you live, if you're sufficiently funded.


Exactly. The choice for people that didn't have it and couldn't afford it was no health care. Some 40 million Americans had that "choice".


That's not true and you know it. Health care is available for everyone in the USA whether a citizen or not. Is it always good? No. Is it always easy to come by? No. But it's always there. And frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between waiting months or years for surgery to prevent a slow-growing cancer from killing you in Canada or waiting in the USA for similar care via state and federally funded programs.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
So I thought I would ask some of my fellow Geeks out there who live in countries that have Universal healthcare such as Canada, UK and Europe how you like it?

Every time the subject comes up here in the States we hear how awful it is and how you guys have to wait months for treatment. There is always a second hand account from someone who says people they know in Canada come to the US for our health care because the healthcare in Canada is so awful.

I was just curious to hear some first hand accounts rather than listen to Rush Limbaugh or some guy on the internet - who alwasy happens to have the same horror story that some conservative pundit is screaming about on the radio.

and if people are wondering, I am a pretty conservative guy but I actually favor Universal healthcare - if it is done right. I just don't see the US doing it right.

Here in belgium, there is small stuff that you have to wait treatment for; however three years ago I was diagnosed with a rare cancer; the day after my doctor received confirmation from histology, and the day after I undergo surgery; two weeks after, I started my chemiotherapy with a doctor I selected. The whole treatment cost me about 300 euros, because I don't pay for the extra insurance; that amount covered absolutely all the extra costs including hospital stay.

I received cutting edge treatment thanks to my country health care policy; things could be better, I think some drug costs are too high, be we are not living in a perfect world.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Valuable bathroom real estate!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
mrspank wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Simply put, when as a boy in the States I had a major accident that nearly killed me, my father who could no afford insurance had in the end to pay off those he could and declare bankruptcy with those who were unwilling to make deal to settle the bills. 20 years later, complications of that accident had me off work for a month as I recuperated from knee surgery. t s not really a bit deal. I could just concentrate on getting better without fearing financial ruin.


Ouch... that's a sad story. However, I'd like to point out that citizens of the United States should have the opportunity to declare bankruptcy to pay for their healthcare instead of having the government ensure that we're all covered.



How does that make any sense? Why should people need to declare bankruptcy in such cases?

Besides, the bills don't magically disappear when bankruptcy occurs. Somebody else such has to eat the cost. In the case of health care, ultimately that backer who eats unpaid bills is the gov't at increased cost. Doesn't it make more sense for the gov't to pay less in order just to cover everybody than for it to pay far more for only a relatively few people?


I was being sarcastic. Forcing people to declare bankruptcy to pay for their children's healthcare is terrible. We, as a nation, can do better.

EDIT: I said "opportunity to declare bankruptcy". Come on, Moshe!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Michealson
United States
Maple Grove
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Valuable bathroom real estate!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:


That's not as chilling as this story.

http://weeklyworldnews.com/aliens/36847/alien-outpost-in-ant...
13 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kate Callen
Israel
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As an adult I've mostly lived in the UK, where I didn't need to use the NHS very often, but definitely appreciate having had that facility, or here in Israel. Here, once I was a citizen I was enrolled in one of the subsidised health insurance companies, where even on a low income and their most basic package we've always had any medical issue seen to as soon as we needed it. The basic package is means tested, so now that I'm working I'm paying a fair amount, but it's taken out of my salary with the other taxes, so I don't notice it that much.

We do have very small, quarterly (not per visit) co-pays, but not enough that it would put us off going to a doctor if we needed to, even when our income was at its lowest - maybe the equivalent of US$2 to see a GP/paediatrician/gynaecologist as often as necessary in a quarter-year, and not much more for consultants/specialists.

The year I was here before my citizenship came through definitely made me appreciate having near-universal healthcare a LOT, especially now that I've been through pregnancy and birth (twice) and have children who've both needed to have specialist examination and follow-up. I don't have to worry can we afford for them to get the care they need, the way some friends in the US do. (Thankfully we haven't had to deal with anything actually terribly serious yet, just a couple of warning signs that bore examination.)

So, yes I have issues with some of the specifics of the healthcare systems here and in the UK, but overall I think they work well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.