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Subject: How do you do Blast? rss

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Stuart Holttum
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Running through a practice game....how does Blast work? Do you:

1) Roll to hit the target, and then place blast if you hit (or not place it if you miss).

And once placed, do you:
1) Roll to hit target, and all others are automatically hit?
2) Roll to hit target, and apply the score you rolled against all others Defences?
or
3) Roll individually to hit for each model in the blast area?

I can't find it anywhere in the rules (so I'd appreciate a page ref!), nor does it seem to be in the FAQ.
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Lee Sweeney
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No one knows yet, on McVey board many theories, but the rules and FAQ do not cover it yet.

Gl

Lee
 
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Stuart Holttum
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Ah, Many thanks!

Much as I want to love this game, so far it has put me right off buying anything else from the company. The FAQ is already pages and pages long, and the Blast question is so basic there is NO excuse for it not being in the rulebook.

How the hell did the playtesters play it? Its not like its an obscure special attack, its a basic property of a standard trooper!!!

Very disappointed.
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Trevis Marlar
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Just for fun, I am going to try and answer this.

1. Page 10, Determine Rage. Check the range to the target.
Short - ...4. Medium - ... 8. Long - ...12
A model can make any ranged combat attack against targets outside of its range. Out of range targets gain a [MOD Defense] 6.

2. Page 4, Areas of Effect. Blasts - an instantaneous area of effect that AFFECTS ANY MODEL IN IT. Models inside of a blast AOE are affected unless the effects vector is blocked by solid walls or closed doors.
Cards: Center burst on taget. Blast and burst are synonymous, so, go with me on saying they're the same.

3. Page 11, Roll to Hit. IF THE MODEL'S ATTACK OR ABILITY CAN REACH THE TARGET and the model has an Attack Vector to the target - the controlling player can make an attack roll.

4. Page 11, Deal Damage. If the attack or ability hits, it deals damage based on the attack's base damage and the attack's staging.
Damage - the base amount of damage done when an attack hits.
Staging - the amount dealt for each 6 rolled in the attack roll.
Subtract the total points of dameage dealt by the attack from the targets Hit total.

So, the target model is the one that the blast/burst is centered on. Check range to see if the first target model, and the rest - maintaining the penalty for firing at targets out of range - of the blast/burst attack gets targeted with out of range MOD of 6, plus other applicable MODs, or not. Since the TO HIT roll is also the DAMAGE ROLL, you do your base damage plus staging damage for each rolled 6, and you're done with the target model. Now, each model under the established burst/blast area, except those behind walls, and doors, is affected by that same attack. The affected models can have different defense numbers, so compare each of their defense numbers to the roll to see if they take damage, if they do, halve the amount of damage determined by that TO HIT/DAMAGE roll.

The reason I am sticking to one roll is because, well, it's simpler. The reason I think that each affected model should have their own Defense number applied to that one roll is because it appears that number is based upon not only how hard the target is to hit, but how tough/well armored it is.

Disclaimers: I am not yelling in some words of the above, I just can't figure out how to use bold in this format. Also, I totally realize that I do not have any recognizable authority in determining the rules for this game.
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Mike Malley
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Stu Holttum wrote:
How the hell did the playtesters play it? Its not like its an obscure special attack; it's a basic property of a standard trooper!!!

Very disappointed.

This is the part that i don't get it. If there's a full-fledged game out there, how did it not make it into the rulebook?
 
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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sir t wrote:

Disclaimers: I am not yelling in some words of the above, I just can't figure out how to use bold in this format. Also, I totally realize that I do not have any recognizable authority in determining the rules for this game.


[ b ]Like this, it's a b (for bold ) in square brackets.[ /b ]
Remove the whitespaces around the b and /b and it would be bold.

Such as this.
 
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J Ry
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caffeinehead wrote:
Stu Holttum wrote:
How the hell did the playtesters play it? Its not like its an obscure special attack; it's a basic property of a standard trooper!!!

Very disappointed.

This is the part that i don't get it. If there's a full-fledged game out there, how did it not make it into the rulebook?


As this point, I think they seriously need to release a physical rulebook with all the updated info and send it to the backers.
Once they have everything ironed out of course.
As someone said it almost feels like we are the playtesters and proof readers.
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Johan Haglert
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Stu Holttum wrote:
Ah, Many thanks!

Much as I want to love this game, so far it has put me right off buying anything else from the company. The FAQ is already pages and pages long, and the Blast question is so basic there is NO excuse for it not being in the rulebook.

How the hell did the playtesters play it? Its not like its an obscure special attack, its a basic property of a standard trooper!!!

Very disappointed.
I'm somewhat glad to hear people aren't super-excited about the companys products since I'm not super-excited about the way they do their kick-starters, the videos for their kick-starters (the new war game got a 45 minutes long game play video so thumbs up for that! It also have a video in the update section which show all the cards, another thumb for that! Great work! A third thumb for presentation would be to have a "review" by someone I trust but I guess that's really hard to do honestly and before release) and the lack of rules.

Hence you don't know what you get, except cool looking minis. I was very interested in this game but I found it hard to buy anything this expensive without actually knowing all that much about the game or have reviews of it. And in somewhat of an angry session because of that I decided that I would actually get Earth reborn which I had been thinking on and off about before (and Dungeon Twister is solid and ER got so much more content for less.)

There doesn't seem to be anything all that wrong with coolminiornots products mind you. They all seem fairly popular, not just OMG IT'S THE BEST GAME EVER AND IT CHANGES EVERYTHING! What I don't like at all as said is the presentation, lack of information and how hard it is to contact them. I appreciate good costumer service, fast replies, honest and full information and what not. I doubt I would be playing Sedition wars with paper slips if it turned out to be good. Though it could had been an alternative to find out what it was really about using the alpha rules and with no further information.

I mostly watch reviews to make my decisions for what to get, though I would appreciate if I could actually had tried the game before. But I expect a rule book to be available not necessarily because I will read it page to page or read it much at all but because I _CAN_ do that if I want to and it help gain my trust. Also I point shorted urls to all the rule books for all games I purchase so I can show people a list and have easy access to the rule books in case they want to check them out.

If you don't want to share the rules chances are something is iffy. Trust goes both ways. If you want to sell me your product you need to convince me it's the product I want to have. The best way to do that is to show me an awesome product.

YMMV and I know they do for lots of you.


If the games ended up being awesome it would had been so much harder to avoid the products because I don't like the companys selling methods, costumer service and presentations.
 
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Patrick Stangier
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caffeinehead wrote:
This is the part that i don't get it. If there's a full-fledged game out there, how did it not make it into the rulebook?

That's easy: Designer Blindness + Editor fail.

Designers (and long term play testers) tend to develop a sort of tunnel vision in regard to rules. Because they know how things should work they often overlook that the written rules do not match up, omit the situation completely or some things simply do not work.
Rob Baxter is new to designing games and has apparently not been warned about this.

The next problem is editing. A lot of games sadly do not get proper editing. Of course game editing is no easy job as not only the wording has to be checked but a game editor should also check if the rules work. And if editing happens at all it is also often under time pressure, because "the printer desperately needs the finished files".
Editing falls into the responsibility of the publisher and CMON, being new to publishing games, have left this aspect sorely slacking.


Studio McVey are now aware of the designer blindness problem and have additional external designers keep an eye on the development of the first Sedition Wars expansion (and hopefully also the rewritting of the original rules).

The editing on CMON games also seems to get better (for example every new version of the Zombicide rulebook lists an additional editor), but if this is due to CMON finally realizing that it is an important aspect or initiative from the designers I can not say.
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Kent Ing
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I would seriously have to agree with ropya's above comment regarding a new rulebook being physically sent out to all purchasers. I also own Sergeants Miniatures Game: Day of Days from Lost Battalion Games and when they made a revised rulebook based on feedback from the users and clarificatoins they sent out a print copy of the rulebook to everyone that bought one (and also threw in a full colour example of play)...now that is customer service and I hope we all get the same here.
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Johan Haglert
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sir t wrote:
..
I haven't read the rule book but this make sense to me.

Except (not sure if you ment this or not) I would let the blast have full effect on everyone within it's area of effect (and no damage outside of the area of effect obviously) regardless of whatever that part of the plast was outside the attacking miniature's range.

And it seems very logical and clean to me.
 
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Johan Haglert
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sir t wrote:
Disclaimers: I am not yelling in some words of the above, I just can't figure out how to use bold in this format. Also, I totally realize that I do not have any recognizable authority in determining the rules for this game.
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
[ b ]Like this, it's a b (for bold ) in square brackets.[ /b ]
You can also go with quote instead of quick quote and you get a range of controls for doing quite a bit of formatting.
 
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Trevis Marlar
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John Haglert: What is the new war game with the 45 minute video? Sounds like good entertainment.
 
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Trevis Marlar
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Hold on: Well, what do you know, bold.
 
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Mike Malley
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Bewulf wrote:
caffeinehead wrote:
This is the part that i don't get it. If there's a full-fledged game out there, how did it not make it into the rulebook?
That's easy: Designer Blindness + Editor fail.

Granted, but we're not talking about edge cases here. This is bloody obvious stuff. This rulebook is simply not finished. If someone told me they accidentally sent a draft copy to the printers, i'd believe it. I felt that Zombicide should've been delayed a month to clean up the rulebook, and SW's somehow managed to make that one look good. This has to be the worst rulebook i've ever seen. Everyone who touched this should be ashamed. And i'm sorry, but Rob's comment about it being a labor of love and making it perfect with our help is laughable, because we're not helping him put the finishing touches on his masterpiece: we're reminding him that he forgot to install the doors and windows. I'm even more miffed that the cards have errata.

(smirk) And i should probably calm down now...
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Mike Malley
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Sedition Wars FAQ
http://studiomcvey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/748-sedition-...
Posted Today, 08:09 PM

Areas of Effect - Blasts

Q: When I make an attack with a weapon or ability that has a blast effect, how do I determine which models are affected?

A: For a blast to be placed successfully, the initial target of the attack must be hit by the attack the Blast will originate from. If the attack misses, then the Blast template is not placed.

When the attack hits, any models within the AoE template of the Blast apply the effect conveyed within the Blast.



/// me: note that if this also applies to Hurley's damage, then the Strain doesn't want to keep meat shields adjacent.
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Trevis Marlar
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Wow! Powerful!
 
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Stuart Holttum
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caffeinehead wrote:
Sedition Wars FAQ

A: For a blast to be placed successfully, the initial target of the attack must be hit by the attack the Blast will originate from. If the attack misses, then the Blast template is not placed.

When the attack hits, any models within the AoE template of the Blast apply the effect conveyed within the Blast.


Thanks for this (and thanks too to Sir T) - but I still don't think it answers all the questions. "any models....apply the effect", it says - so does that mean they JUST get a rad counter or whatever, or do they take damage (and if so how).....

caffeinehead wrote:
Granted, but we're not talking about edge cases here. This is bloody obvious stuff.


Exactly! Blast weapons are a major part of the game, a standard ability of low-level troops. One paragraph to explain the process should be an obvious part of the rulebook, not something you have to puzzle out from umpteen disparate sections, and/or be half-answered in a FAQ.

I'm seriously annoyed by the presentation of this game.
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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After reading all this, I decided to skip reading the rulebook until some reviewed version becomes available.

It's sloppy of them and we all know we paid lots of moneys for this game but still, not the end of the world. I believe they will set things right and I hope they've learned a lesson.

Luckily for me, painting and assembling (not necessarily this order) will keep me busy with this game for a looooooooong time. So lots of fun to be had before actually playing it. I'm not a miniature fanatic, haven't painted in abt. 15 years but this is obviously a part of this type of games.

Oh yes, the kickstarter "rules" also say that we as the "investors" have the final responsibility to look after the projects' viability.


cheers!
 
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Patrick Stangier
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caffeinehead wrote:
Granted, but we're not talking about edge cases here. This is bloody obvious stuff. ... And i'm sorry, but Rob's comment about it being a labor of love and making it perfect with our help is laughable,...

Obvious maybe for you and me (and every other person with more than passing knowledge in regards to game design), but let me repeat: First time board game designer (to my knowledge Rob Baxter only worked on RPGs before), a studio that had nothing to do with game rules in the past (while Mike McVey is referred to as a designer, that is miniatures design, not rules design) and a publisher that is known for failing editing.
I was not expecting very much and one glance at the preview pages confirmed my expectations.

However I do not doubt that this is really a labor of love for Rob Baxter. I think the enthusiasm shown by him is real.
In my mind the image of a motivated home improver, trying to build a complete house all on his own, forgetting simple stuff due to the magnitude of the project, not receiving any help from the company that was supposed to send experts to check keeps popping up.
What now remains to be seen is if the house is salvageable or if the only hope is in pulling it down.
 
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Mike Malley
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I couldn't speak to any enthusiasm since i didn't really follow any comments during the campaign. If so, than i guess i stand corrected on that point.
 
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