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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Data Mine and the destruction of a remote server rss

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Ony Moose
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If you have a single data mine as the only card in a remote server, once it has detonated that remote server ceases to exist as there are no longer any cards in it.

However, if this happens during a run where the runner wished to use a bank job at the end, what happens?

The remote server destructs during the encounter with the Data Mine. After this the server no longer exists, as all cards in it have been trashed. Can the runner still count it as a successful run and decline to access cards to activate the bank job?

I assume the runner can use a bank job in this case, but its not clear from the rules what happens if a remote server ceases to exist mid run!

Thematically I like the idea of a runner being forced to jack-out as the remote server completely de-rezzes around him after the data mine goes off and so doesn't get to access anything for bank job.

[EDIT for future reference]
Malgamus wrote:
I actually asked Lukas this question for a similar scenario and got this response:

Quote:
Rule Question:
If you have a single piece of ICE installed on a remote server with no agenda/asset/upgrades installed on the server and the runner uses Parasite and Datasucker to trash the ICE, would the server no longer exist immediately or still exist for the remainder of the run allowing the runner to use a card like Bank Job?


Quote:
If there are no cards installed in or protecting a remote server, the server no longer exists. In the example situation you present, the run would immediately end, and would not be considered to be successful or unsuccessful. Therefore, the Runner could not use Bank Job. (Note that if the Runner trashes the last card in a server, the run is still considered to be successful since he has already passed that point in the run chart.)


So it looks like the answer is the run ends immediately and is not able to use bank job.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Kandiru wrote:
If you have a single data mine as the only card in a remote server, once it has detonated that remote server ceases to exist as there are no longer any cards in it.

However, if this happens during a run where the runner wished to use a bank job at the end, what happens?


I'd say that, because the server existed when he started the run, he'd still get to use Bank Job even though there's no "there" there. Similarly, if the runner had destroyed the ice with Wyrm+Parasite or something, the remote server would continue to exist until the end of the run.
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Nicholas Kinsman
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I'm reasonably sure the outcome here is that the run can continue.
Pg.13, under "Installing cards":
Quote:
If the Corporation creates a remote server by installing ice, the server exists, but is considered to be EMPTY.[emphasis manual] An empty server can still be run against by the Runner.

Where I'm going with this is that I don't believe the game checks the state of a remote except when you initiate a run. It doesn't 'evaporate' part way through because the ICE disappeared - an empty remote server still exists for the run once Data Mine has triggered.

As an added point, following the timing chart, it never asks you to check if the server 'still exists'. Once there is no more ICE to encounter, you're allowed to declare access for a successful run. Once you've done so and it ends, the server will no longer exist to be a valid target for future runs.

(Note, this example isn't unique to data mine - it could happen on any server with pieces of ICE where parasite and data sucker and ice carver are used to trash the ICE during a run)
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Alejandro G.
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Kandiru wrote:
If you have a single data mine as the only card in a remote server, once it has detonated that remote server ceases to exist as there are no longer any cards in it.

However, if this happens during a run where the runner wished to use a bank job at the end, what happens?

The remote server destructs during the encounter with the Data Mine. After this the server no longer exists, as all cards in it have been trashed. Can the runner still count it as a successful run and decline to access cards to activate the bank job?

I assume the runner can use a bank job in this case, but its not clear from the rules what happens if a remote server ceases to exist mid run!

Thematically I like the idea of a runner being forced to jack-out as the remote server completely de-rezzes around him after the data mine goes off and so doesn't get to access anything for bank job.


Great question. This might be worthy of an e-mail to the person (I can't remember his name) who has been clarifying rules for us. IMO ...if the Data Mine went off and nothing was there the runner should not be able to spam the non-existent remote with bank job. He/She shouldn't be able to point to a blank area saying... "I'm making a run and now accessing bank job.".

Edit: Read the Scenario incorrectly.
Still makes an excellent question though. Hopefully we hear something back.
 
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Yan
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
if the Data Mine went off and nothing was there the runner should not be able to spam the non-existent remote with bank job. He/She shouldn't be able to point to a blank area saying... "I'm making a run and now accessing bank job.".

Would be nice for a clarification. Great Question OP.


We already know about that. If the last card installed in (or above) a server is trashed, then the server is gone. Indeed you can't run non existent servers.

The question is "what if this happen in the middle of a run ?". Like with data mine. Is the run allowed to continue up to the "run is successful" point ? Which could possibly trigger some cards. Or does the run end right then and there because the server no longer exist ?

Indeed that is the kind of things we should ask Luka.

Edit: Question sent.
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Malefact
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Presumably this will also be relevant for any future cards that self-destruct - such as Bernice Mai. Runner runs on a remote with only Bernice Mai, trace fires and fails, Bernice is trashed - does Bank Job still get a chance to activate?
 
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Yan
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Malefact wrote:
Presumably this will also be relevant for any future cards that self-destruct - such as Bernice Mai. Runner runs on a remote with only Bernice Mai, trace fires and fails, Bernice is trashed - does Bank Job still get a chance to activate?

This is also relevant for the parasite + ice carver/data sucker combo.
 
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Brian Grell
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I actually asked Lukas this question for a similar scenario and got this response:

Quote:
Rule Question:
If you have a single piece of ICE installed on a remote server with no agenda/asset/upgrades installed on the server and the runner uses Parasite and Datasucker to trash the ICE, would the server no longer exist immediately or still exist for the remainder of the run allowing the runner to use a card like Bank Job?


Quote:
If there are no cards installed in or protecting a remote server, the server no longer exists. In the example situation you present, the run would immediately end, and would not be considered to be successful or unsuccessful. Therefore, the Runner could not use Bank Job. (Note that if the Runner trashes the last card in a server, the run is still considered to be successful since he has already passed that point in the run chart.)
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Yan
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Well well. Looks like we already have a answer.
 
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Steven Tu
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Malgamus wrote:
I actually asked Lukas this question for a similar scenario and got this response:

Quote:
Rule Question:
If you have a single piece of ICE installed on a remote server with no agenda/asset/upgrades installed on the server and the runner uses Parasite and Datasucker to trash the ICE, would the server no longer exist immediately or still exist for the remainder of the run allowing the runner to use a card like Bank Job?


Quote:
If there are no cards installed in or protecting a remote server, the server no longer exists. In the example situation you present, the run would immediately end, and would not be considered to be successful or unsuccessful. Therefore, the Runner could not use Bank Job. (Note that if the Runner trashes the last card in a server, the run is still considered to be successful since he has already passed that point in the run chart.)


That's actually a surprise finish so the rule is when all elements of a server is removed from it, it immediately disappears and cannot becomes a successful run. Interesting
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Tuism wrote:
[...] so the rule is when all elements of a server is removed from it, it immediately disappears and cannot becomes a successful run. Interesting

No. That's not the rule. That is only true if there are no cards installed in the server and the last piece of ice is trashed. If there is no ice and the runner trashes the last installed card (at the end of a run) then the run is still considered to be successful. In this case the runner could still use Bank Job.
 
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Jeremy Larner
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BitJam wrote:
Tuism wrote:
[...] so the rule is when all elements of a server is removed from it, it immediately disappears and cannot becomes a successful run. Interesting

No. That's not the rule. That is only true if there are no cards installed in the server and the last piece of ice is trashed. If there is no ice and the runner trashes the last installed card (at the end of a run) then the run is still considered to be successful. In this case the runner could still use Bank Job.


My reading is that yes, that is the rule. If the runner trashes the last card installed in the server, the run is successful, but that is due to the fact that access only occurs after the run has been declared successful (once a run is declared successful, that cannot later be changed).

Bank Job is used instead of accessing (and hence trashing), so I can't see how you can use a Bank Job when you've already accessed (and trashed) installed cards.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Jadiel wrote:
Bank Job is used instead of accessing (and hence trashing), so I can't see how you can use a Bank Job when you've already accessed (and trashed) installed cards.

Your right. I edited my post. Thanks for the correction.
 
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Steven Tu
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Jadiel wrote:
BitJam wrote:
Tuism wrote:
[...] so the rule is when all elements of a server is removed from it, it immediately disappears and cannot becomes a successful run. Interesting

No. That's not the rule. That is only true if there are no cards installed in the server and the last piece of ice is trashed. If there is no ice and the runner trashes the last installed card (at the end of a run) then the run is still considered to be successful. In this case the runner could still use Bank Job.


My reading is that yes, that is the rule. If the runner trashes the last card installed in the server, the run is successful, but that is due to the fact that access only occurs after the run has been declared successful (once a run is declared successful, that cannot later be changed).

Bank Job is used instead of accessing (and hence trashing), so I can't see how you can use a Bank Job when you've already accessed (and trashed) installed cards.


Yeah, I didn't even think about the case where it's already a successful run because, well, it already is that's how I understood it.
 
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Nicholas Kinsman
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Well, guess I'm wrong. Fantastic. whistle
 
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Ony Moose
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Awesome, It would be a horrible waste of cards, but you could possibly bait a criminal with a DataMine/Corporate Troubleshooter into running on your remote thinking they can Bank Job (Against Jinteki:RP that could be 3 actions), to get enough cash to take your game winning agenda only to find the server blowing up in their face and leaving them high and dry!
 
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Wesley Chan
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This would also affect Desperado then. They don't get the credit, since the run wasn't successful.
Seems like they're going to need an updated FAQ soon. Lots of these answers scattered about. Has anyone compiled them anywhere?
 
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