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Subject: After hitting 305K, a Message from CMoN rss

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Nathaniel Baker
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CoolMiniorNot wrote:
While we're here, just to address the sometimes essay long comments (phew, that's a lot of wordage) about how we aren't responding to every single concern. We're a little more cautious than most new companies with promising stuff. We need to make sure we can do it, do it on time, do it profitably, and do it so that you, as the backer are happy we did it. We'd be perfectly happy with the result if the campaign ended today because we know with relatively certainty that all 1600+ of you will get what we promised.
We don't post updates for the sake of generating noise (a lot of backers specifically request that we do not do so, and don't appreciate it), and only update when there is something concrete to say. The nature of things is, suggestions take time to evaluate, consider and accept or reject. There are many, many people involved in bringing Rivet Wars to reality - as a backer, you only witness the tip of the spear. We may not always get it right, but we don't do things on a whim, and take games seriously (or at least, where making them is concerned).
At this point in the campaign, with the release of the M7 and Doomwheel, we are complete for the first wave of expansion content, barring a few canon heroes. You will be unlikely to be able to get the expansion stuff cheaper later (you'll see why the update later today), nor will you be able to mix and match stuff like you can now. If we hit our later stretches to be announced today, the air expansion that's being hinted at is going to get rolled out as well, which should be exciting times.
Our chief challenge now is not trying to get you to up your pledge, but getting the word out to people who don't already know about Rivet Wars - if we can do that, we can get the air units out quicker with more freebies for the Blitzkrieg level pledges and the expansion options. You can help with that by spreading the word outside of Kickstarter, and helping the new backers in the comments area too.


This shows a great deal of what is to come folks. JOIN THE FIGHT!!
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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knatebaker wrote:
CoolMiniorNot wrote:
While we're here, just to address the sometimes essay long comments (phew, that's a lot of wordage) about how we aren't responding to every single concern. We're a little more cautious than most new companies with promising stuff. We need to make sure we can do it, do it on time, do it profitably, and do it so that you, as the backer are happy we did it. We'd be perfectly happy with the result if the campaign ended today because we know with relatively certainty that all 1600+ of you will get what we promised.
We don't post updates for the sake of generating noise (a lot of backers specifically request that we do not do so, and don't appreciate it), and only update when there is something concrete to say. The nature of things is, suggestions take time to evaluate, consider and accept or reject. There are many, many people involved in bringing Rivet Wars to reality - as a backer, you only witness the tip of the spear. We may not always get it right, but we don't do things on a whim, and take games seriously (or at least, where making them is concerned).
At this point in the campaign, with the release of the M7 and Doomwheel, we are complete for the first wave of expansion content, barring a few canon heroes. You will be unlikely to be able to get the expansion stuff cheaper later (you'll see why the update later today), nor will you be able to mix and match stuff like you can now. If we hit our later stretches to be announced today, the air expansion that's being hinted at is going to get rolled out as well, which should be exciting times.
Our chief challenge now is not trying to get you to up your pledge, but getting the word out to people who don't already know about Rivet Wars - if we can do that, we can get the air units out quicker with more freebies for the Blitzkrieg level pledges and the expansion options. You can help with that by spreading the word outside of Kickstarter, and helping the new backers in the comments area too.


This shows a great deal of what is to come folks. JOIN THE FIGHT!!


Uh huh... Well, I won't repeat myself as you posted this elsewhere and I responded... but their post wasn't hugs, puppies, and heroism... People who followed the comments this morning will read it as passive aggressive and not terribly worth discussing. Join the fi.... Oh nevermind. :-p


Edit: Seems i'm not alone is disliking the tone of CMoN's post. Two more backers have left, and the total is down several hundred dollars in the last two hours.
 
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Jonah Rees
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Got to be honest I'm not loving the tone of the latest update. Although I do like the stretch goals the 'LOOK AT THE CAMPAIGN WE'RE GIVING YOU. YOU'LL NEED EVERY PIECE THAT WE INCLUDE IN BLITZKRIEG. WE TOLD YOU SO!' tone is somewhat off-putting. And by giving all the scenery out with the tile pack it's basically just saying actually this is two copies of the game. Still, means it's a lot easier to try to get somebody else to jump on board or sell it once it arrives.

I do like the new updates though. Getting extras in the Vert Tank/Lanskrieger makes it a very good deal in my opinion and planes dropping at $400k is exciting as means we could see a lot of cool stuff before the KS ends.
 
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Darrell Kienzle
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After reading your comment, I went back and reread that update several times, looking for the tone that you heard in it. I had no such luck. Rather, it seemed like they were saying "you asked for a reason to need all these extras, so here it is!"

I really appreciate how responsive (and good natured) they have been to all the criticism they have received.
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Anders Pedersen
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
Edit: Seems i'm not alone is disliking the tone of CMoN's post. Two more backers have left, and the total is down several hundred dollars in the last two hours.

Those fluctuations happen all the time on Kickstarter.
You really can't draw any proper conclusions unless people leave a goodbye message in the forum.

I have even seen the numbers drop on some projects just as they hit a stretch goal... Pretty weird, but that is how it goes.
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M Joyce
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kienzle wrote:
After reading your comment, I went back and reread that update several times, looking for the tone that you heard in it. I had no such luck. Rather, it seemed like they were saying "you asked for a reason to need all these extras, so here it is!"

I really appreciate how responsive (and good natured) they have been to all the criticism they have received.


I have to agree. I haven't pledged, but I'm still following the Kickstarter because I'm interested in the game. I was expecting some snark-filled post from CMON, but I didn't see any of that. Maybe I missed something.
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Tanner Thetford
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Just for everyone's information, they posted a new update that looks extremely good. I'm more excited than ever! The Campaign and Tile Pack both look amazing.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rivet-wars...
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Nathaniel Baker
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luv2breformed wrote:
Just for everyone's information, they posted a new update that looks extremely good. I'm more excited than ever! The Campaign and Tile Pack both look amazing.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rivet-wars...


Not only that, but the first AIR UNIT announced for 400K.

RED BARON.
 
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Kiren Maelwulf
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LivelyToaster wrote:
kienzle wrote:
After reading your comment, I went back and reread that update several times, looking for the tone that you heard in it. I had no such luck. Rather, it seemed like they were saying "you asked for a reason to need all these extras, so here it is!"

I really appreciate how responsive (and good natured) they have been to all the criticism they have received.


I have to agree. I haven't pledged, but I'm still following the Kickstarter because I'm interested in the game. I was expecting some snark-filled post from CMON, but I didn't see any of that. Maybe I missed something.


Yeah, I have not pledged either but am interested in the projects and have been reading the comments posted by CMON. I too do not see the negative attitude some have seen in the comments. All the posts I've seen have been pretty good natured. I wonder if some people are reading too much into the wording.
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Jonah Rees
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kienzle wrote:
After reading your comment, I went back and reread that update several times, looking for the tone that you heard in it. I had no such luck. Rather, it seemed like they were saying "you asked for a reason to need all these extras, so here it is!"


Therein lies the issue that I and other people have had though. It's giving us an 'invented' reason to 'need' all the duplicates. They still feel like they were a way to make the BK pledge seem value for money whilst actually adding no game value at all and this is just something that has been added on as an excuse for the duplicates rather than a genuine reason.

As I've said, I'm pretty excited about the new stretch goals and I hope that it brings a lot more people on board as I really want to see what comes after the Red Baron. But it would have been much better to include more variety in the BK pledge initially rather than duplicates which for the main part are unnecessary.
 
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蓝魔
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Quote:
".. nor will you be able to mix and match stuff like you can now.


We can mix & match now ?? That's news to me !!

We're stuck with pop culture heroes even if we don't want them and without the possibility of exchanging them for something else of equivalent "CMoN" value. Plus all the BOGOF offers are fixed too according to pack/manufacture size ..
 
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Jonah Rees
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I think it means that several things will come bundled together in the expansions. So for example the Vert Tanks, Lanskriegers and both Dog Units will all be one box whereas now you can just pick up extra of the first two bundled together and the last two on their own.

Further to my point above though. CMON have already stated that they had already planned extra scenarios that would utilise the duplicates so coming out and say we asked for it so here it is becomes contradictory (they put it in bold in the update, I just then capitalised to (over?)emphasise) the point. It's either one or the other but most people didn't ask for missions that used the duplicates they asked why they were there in the first place. Those who did want the duplicates have come up with some really cool ideas for epic battles and wargame versions of Rivet but they are separate. I know it seems like I'm having a go at CMON constantly but I'm really not. I love the look of the game in both aesthetics and playstyle and I want the KS to b successful. I just think they would have been much better included more variety in the BK pledge (i.e. the core game with all the expansion stuff) and then making duplicates available for purchase for those who want them.
 
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Mike Martin
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I honestly feel bad for CMON, dealing with the morass that is the KS comment thread. It seems like the setup of those comment board make it very difficult to respond effectively to the spread of (as was so aptly put on the board) FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Rivet Wars seems to be the worst of it so far, and I primarily think it's due to a vocal disgruntled few. I would love to see a histogram of posts, and be able to see clearly who is making the most noise and why.

If the kickstarter ended today, I would be extremely happy with what I'm getting for backing this. I would not have backed it otherwise. I did not back it in the expectation that CMON would offer me more than I initially pledged to pay for. I think the root of this whole issue of KS fatigue is that now people go in with this expectation that they will be given free swag. It's become an entitlement. And now when people pledge to back X, and then are given 2X + Y, they start to piss and moan, saying "No, I demand X + Y + Z + AA + BB +...". And those who aren't demanding things can't get clear info out of the comments page because it's consumed with people whining or others trying to make sense of why they are whining.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone, who decides the campaign is not for them, would cut their pledge and drop down their pledge to one dollar just so they can continue to harangue those still in the campaign. It's sad and pathetic, and like I said, I feel sorry for CMON.
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For me, it has only *just* become a sure thing. I can now envision a scenario to afford my full pledge (paid for through judicious reselling of parts I don't personally feel I need). I pledged early on, convinced the Blitz level was worth it. But as the expansions ended up not being included in the Blitz level, I held on, until finally, I personally feel there is enough additional "free" units to make a further $50 investment worth it.

I'm hoping additional free units will make me even more secure in my position.
 
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Ryan L
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Grim6 wrote:
I honestly feel bad for CMON, dealing with the morass that is the KS comment thread. It seems like the setup of those comment board make it very difficult to respond effectively to the spread of (as was so aptly put on the board) FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Rivet Wars seems to be the worst of it so far, and I primarily think it's due to a vocal disgruntled few. I would love to see a histogram of posts, and be able to see clearly who is making the most noise and why.

If the kickstarter ended today, I would be extremely happy with what I'm getting for backing this. I would not have backed it otherwise. I did not back it in the expectation that CMON would offer me more than I initially pledged to pay for. I think the root of this whole issue of KS fatigue is that now people go in with this expectation that they will be given free swag. It's become an entitlement. And now when people pledge to back X, and then are given 2X + Y, they start to piss and moan, saying "No, I demand X + Y + Z + AA + BB +...". And those who aren't demanding things can't get clear info out of the comments page because it's consumed with people whining or others trying to make sense of why they are whining.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone, who decides the campaign is not for them, would cut their pledge and drop down their pledge to one dollar just so they can continue to harangue those still in the campaign. It's sad and pathetic, and like I said, I feel sorry for CMON.


This sense of false entitlement is a problem that tends to show up a lot on the internet, and in geek culture more prominently. I think part of it might be that with KS some people don't get it that they are pledging money, not being turned in to an investor.

Also I agree that it feels like with the complaining, to some extent, is about the Blitz not meeting their "value judgement", because for me I feel that the Blitz is a good value. I feel that some may not understand is it's a lot cheaper to do duplicates then brand new characters, and from a "we still nee to make money" standpoint I understand why every new goal can't be a new free unit.
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Jonah Rees
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Michael - if you be bothered you can click on people's profiles and see how much they've posted on different projects. I would think that there's significantly more people who are what has been labelled fanboys commenting that the 'vocal minority' that are expressing concerns. I definitely agree that the KS comments section isn't the best forum for comments and replies because of the way it's organised. I've kind of given up commenting in there now. Would be so much easier if the posts were time and dated too.

Ryan - value is completely subjective. I don't really know of anybody who has complained about the monetary value though as you get a lot of miniatures for your money. What has been questioned is the gameplay value because of all the duplicates. As you say, duplicates are very cheap to produce as the moulds will already have been made. But that just makes it even more infuriating that they are charging $60 extra for a few exclusive bits plus a load of miniatures that aren't really that necessary.
 
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蓝魔
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Quote:
I feel that some may not understand is it's a lot cheaper to do duplicates then brand new characters,


Why is it that just about every person pro the value of the BK pledge feels the need to post the blatantly obvious, and think that makes only their opinion right. shake

 
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Ryan L
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Jonah - I completely understand what you're saying and I do see why people have questions about the gameplay value of the dups. I guess I'm just more in the wait and see camp of whether they will have scenarios that uses the dups.

To the second point tho it's just capitalism. If you dont like what you get for the extra 60 then just get the base game. I just don't understand the anger for some thing that is not a required purchases.

O'Keife - There is a reason I said some and not all
 
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Nathaniel Baker
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moocifer wrote:
Quote:
I feel that some may not understand is it's a lot cheaper to do duplicates then brand new characters,


Why is it that just about every person pro the value of the BK pledge feels the need to post the blatantly obvious, and think that makes only their opinion right. shake



He thinks only his opinion is right? I don't remember reading that...also, people from both sides are doing it moocifer...

I'm also sick of the "opinion flame wars" however. People keep saying that the other person thinks they are right and then that person defends themselves and then says the other person ius wrong, and its on every freaking thread of this forum.

I need a moderator to keep people on topic.
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