black spark
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Stage 1B of The Siege of Cair Andros (The Defense, HoN72) has the text, "If there are no Battleground locations in play, immediately advance to the next stage."

Situation: The Approach is the last Battleground location in play, and it is the active location. I quest successfully and fully explore The Approach (thereby removing the last Battleground from play; this fulfills the quest advancement text on the quest card before placing any progress tokens on the quest card).

What happens to the remaining progress tokens?
A) The progress tokens are placed on stage 1B and then the quest advances.
B) The quest immediately advances and the progress tokens are placed on the new quest card.
C) The quest immediately advances and the progress tokens are not placed anywhere.
D) Another option that I have not thought of.

Thank you in advance for any input.
 
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Paul M.
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That's a good question! Without thinking it through too much I would say that you immediately move to the next quest stage, but no progress is added to the new quest stage. My reasoning is that Since progress doesn't spill over from stage to stage and the progress was made on the previous stage nothing would be added to the next.

But, you could argue that you do indeed put the earned progress on the next stage since you traveled there immediately before placing any progress on the previous stage.

Hmm.... Might be worth submitting the question to FFG.
 
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ys jo
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Oh dear.... very interesting question.

Does progress token from active location spill to current quest before or after that active location is explored?

Rulebook pg 14 wrote:
Note that if there is an active
location (see page 15), progress tokens are placed on
that location until it is explored, and the remainder are
then placed on the current quest.


it looks like active location is explored (trigger any response/forced effects), and then progress tokens are spilled over to current quest.

So I would say answer is B) in this situation, but I am not 100% sure.

p.s. I am really liking all these fundmental timing questions that popped up in the forum lately.
 
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Tom Howard
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I'm pretty sure the answer is A (which is essentially the same as C). The reason for this is because when you have a game effect that places progress tokens, those tokens are placed simultaneously. The act of questing successfully has you place progress tokens, but nothing can happen between placing one token and another one. Once you've placed all the progress tokens for questing successfully, then the quest will immediately flip to the next stage. And as per the normal rules, progress tokens do not carry over onto the next stage.

However, the FAQ does illustrate an interesting example where you're able to place progress tokens right after flipping to a new quest stage:

-------FAQ 1.3, pg 7-------
Q: If Legolas has a Blade of Gondolin (CORE 39) and destroys an enemy, can he trigger his response, finish off a quest card, and still place progress tokens on the next quest with the Blade of Gondolin’s response?
A: Yes. Quest cards are immediately replaced as soon as players place enough progress on them, and this replacement does not interrupt the current round sequence. If the current quest card only needs 1 progress on it, then a player could also trigger the Blade’s effect first, and then Legolas’ in order to maximize the number of progress tokens placed. (There is no carry-over progress from an effect).
---------------------------

The reason this example works is because there are two separate game effects that place progress tokens, and the quest card can change between these effects. But in your example, the act of questing successfully is one event which must be fully resolved before flipping that quest card.
 
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Paul M.
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If GeckoTH is correct, that progress tokens are essentially placed simultaneously without allowing any game actions taking place in the process, then the answer is A. Is there mention of this somewhere in the rules or faq? I can't seem to find it.

If progress tokens are not essentially placed all at the same time, things could be different. The quote ellareth took from the rule book and the text from Stage 1B of Siege of Cair Andros makes me think that the advancement to the next quest would happen immediately after that last location was explored, and only then would the rest of the progress be placed. The new quest stage would now be active, leftover progress would be placed on the new quest step.

Just going by the original spirit of the rules. No progress ever carries over if it is from a single effect.

I've never had to worry about something like this before, and can't off the top of my head think of another quest where this could ever happen!
 
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Oleg volobujev
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GeckoTH wrote:
I'm pretty sure the answer is A (which is essentially the same as C). The reason for this is because when you have a game effect that places progress tokens, those tokens are placed simultaneously. The act of questing successfully has you place progress tokens, but nothing can happen between placing one token and another one. Once you've placed all the progress tokens for questing successfully, then the quest will immediately flip to the next stage. And as per the normal rules, progress tokens do not carry over onto the next stage.

However, the FAQ does illustrate an interesting example where you're able to place progress tokens right after flipping to a new quest stage:

-------FAQ 1.3, pg 7-------
Q: If Legolas has a Blade of Gondolin (CORE 39) and destroys an enemy, can he trigger his response, finish off a quest card, and still place progress tokens on the next quest with the Blade of Gondolin’s response?
A: Yes. Quest cards are immediately replaced as soon as players place enough progress on them, and this replacement does not interrupt the current round sequence. If the current quest card only needs 1 progress on it, then a player could also trigger the Blade’s effect first, and then Legolas’ in order to maximize the number of progress tokens placed. (There is no carry-over progress from an effect).
---------------------------

The reason this example works is because there are two separate game effects that place progress tokens, and the quest card can change between these effects. But in your example, the act of questing successfully is one event which must be fully resolved before flipping that quest card.


I agree with you
 
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black spark
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So what I'm hearing is that A) is correct if all progress tokens are placed in 1 step (as suggested by GeckoTH) but B) is correct if progress tokens are placed in 2 steps, one step for the active location and a second step for the quest card (as suggested by ellareth). Well, if FFG settles this debate one way or the other, please let me know.

Incidentally, I think there is another scenario where this situation could arise: Into the Pit from the Khazad-dum expansion. Consider placing 7 (or more) progress tokens on stage 1B (Entering the Mines) and then Traveling to the Bridge of Khazad-dum location. The quest advancement conditions are then met when the Bridge of Khazad-dum is explored (and before placing progress tokens on the quest card). That being said, I believe this situation occurs much more naturally in The Siege of Cair Andros scenario.

Also, I can easily see this situation arising in future scenarios. I believe this is worth resolving.
 
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ys jo
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black spark wrote:
but B) is correct if progress tokens are placed in 2 steps, one step for the active location and a second step for the quest card (as suggested by ellareth).


I must have badly worded my opinion.
That is not what I said (or intedned to say).

Here is how I see quest resolution step in parts.

1) Determine if players have quested successfully or unsuccesfully.
2) All progress tokens are placed to current quest or Active Location if it exist.
3) If active location has enough or more than enough progress tokens, it is immediately explored
4) If the Active Location is explored then unused progress tokens are spilled to current quest.

I'm not response or forced effects can happen while placing progress token #3 and #4,

I'm saying they are all placed in active location, then any response or forced, then it is spilled to current quest.

But yeah.... official ruling would be nice as I see this one being ruled either way.
 
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black spark
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My apologies. I may have written unclearly myself, and I think now I understand your perspective better than I did before.

I meant to convey that the section of the rulebook you quoted may allow the quest card to change before progress tokens are placed on (that is, spill onto) the quest card, while GeckoTH's line of thought does not give the opportunity for the quest card to change at that time. It is still unclear to me whether or not the opportunity actually exists.
 
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Figo 3434
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Another question: If stage 2 and stage 3 have been previously removed and The Citadel is the active location, what happens if you fully explore it? Is its response triggered first, so that you remove stage 4 from the quest deck and then advance to stage 5, or do you first follow the instructions on quest card 1 and "immediately advance to the next quest stage if there are no battleground locations in play" (which would be advancing to stage 4)?
 
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Tony Fanchi
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Figo3434 wrote:
Another question: If stage 2 and stage 3 have been previously removed and The Citadel is the active location, what happens if you fully explore it? Is its response triggered first, so that you remove stage 4 from the quest deck and then advance to stage 5, or do you first follow the instructions on quest card 1 and "immediately advance to the next quest stage if there are no battleground locations in play" (which would be advancing to stage 4)?

According to the FAQ, passive abilities take precedence over Response abilities, so the quest card triggers first. From the FAQ:
Quote:
(1.37) Timing of effect resolution
When resolving multiple effects with a shared
condition, players should use this order of resolution:
passive abilities first, Forced effects second, Response
actions third.
 
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Figo 3434
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So that would mean that because all battleground locations have the same text on it ("after full exploring, remove stage x from the quest deck"), you can never remove all three quest stages (2,3,4) from the deck, because the last battleground's response is never triggered (quest card 1' passive ability makes you advance prior to that)?
 
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Tony Fanchi
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That appears to be the case.
 
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black spark
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I have a different perspective to consider: both effects are observed due to the last Battleground location leaving play, but the FAQ then clearly gives an order in which the effects resolve. So for the situation specified, the passive effect would advance the quest to stage 4 and then the Response effect would advance the quest to stage 5 by removing stage 4.
 
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