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War of the Ring: Lords of Middle-earth» Forums » General

Subject: Why, o why rss

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Jan Tuijp
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[rant]Yesterday I incorporated the Upgrade Kit and LoME in my 1st Edition. I was already disappointed for they are quite expensive for what you get, at least in the Netherlands (€50 for the two - about $70). A box of sleeves and cards (a fancy box, I grant you) in the Upgrade Kit, another couple of cards, a few mini's, 5 dice, some chits and a small rulebook in the expansion. I was definitely underwhelmed.

What I did like was the sleeves in the Upgrade Kit. The quality of the cards already is outstanding, but the perfectly tailored sleeves (which also seem above average quality wise) makes them downright gorgeous. Still pricey, but gorgeous.

So next I started unpacking LoME. This was really disappointing, especially for a 1E owner. Where are my corsairs? Where are my Ents? And of the mini's, three I already have. And (still!) no Gollum mini!

Then, to my horror, I discovered I could not add the cards of LoME in the fancy card box from the Upgrade Kit. It doesn't fit! Not when they are sleeved, anyway. If only they had made the card box just three mm deeper, you could have stored the cards sideways and the lid would
have fitted nicely. Why make a custom card box exactly fit an unsleeved deck of cards and then cruelly add sleeves which make it rather difficult to extract the sleeved deck from the box? And makes it absolutely impossible to store cards from any expansion? Why, o why?

So far, this is a rant on the Upgrade Kit. Why am I posting this in the LoME forum? Well, the final and ultimate insult came to me when I wanted to sleeve the cards from the expansion.

THERE ARE NO SLEEVES IN THE EXPANSION

Yes, you heard correctly. There are no sleeves in the LoME expansion. If you use the leftover sleeves from the Upgrade Kit, you end up twenty or something sleeves short. 1E owners have no choice but to leave all or a portion of their decks (probably the character cards) unsleeved or buy extra sleeves. Infuriating.

So, if I had known in advance, would I not have purchased the kits?

Don't be silly. Of course I would have bought them. I do not easily complain about prices of boardgames, since I tend to relate money spent to time enjoyed. But it does aggravate me when pricey products leave basic things to desire.[/rant]

Since English is not my 1st language and I'm not used to rant in anything but Dutch, please do apologize any typos/grammar mistakes

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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Easy sullotion:

Don't sleeve the Character Cards.
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Chris Young
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Or purchase additional sleeves from Mayfair. As anyone who sleeves cards knows they do break or get damaged.
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Mark Chaplin
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This is a review?


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Russ Hewson
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And I bet the guys at Ares thought they were doing a nice thing by putting sleeves in the upgrade kit.

Apparently not.
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Joel Berg von Linde
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A lot of ranting about pricing, where is the review? How did you feel about actually playing the game with the expansion?
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Joel Berg von Linde
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when are we getting an expansion for Yedo?
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aammondd wrote:
Or purchase additional sleeves from Mayfair. As anyone who sleeves cards knows they do break or get damaged.


Mayfair did the sleeves from the upgrade kit. I haven't had any problems with the sleeves.
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Jan Tuijp
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Veldrin wrote:
Easy sullotion:

Don't sleeve the Character Cards.


Yes, I said that. That's not the point.

 
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Jan Tuijp
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aammondd wrote:
Or purchase additional sleeves from Mayfair. As anyone who sleeves cards knows they do break or get damaged.


Yes, I said that too. And that's also beside the point.

 
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Jan Tuijp
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Yugblad wrote:
This is a review?


No, it isn't. But it's not a session either, or News, or PBF, or variant or rules or strategy related. And since I didn't think its General either (it does contain info which 1E owners might want to know in advance) I labeled it the only remaining choice.

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Michael McFall
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Actually this "is" a review.

He is stating his likes and dislikes. When I read any review, that's the basic information I want to know.

In this review he makes a few points about quaility. People from Ares might be interested in knowing what people think about the way this expansion is packaged.

Also take note: even though he didn't like the packaging, he still likes the game.

 
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Jan Tuijp
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brilk wrote:
If you've already eliminated review as a possible choice, how exactly is review the only remaining choice? This is clearly a rant for the general forum.


I hadn't and it isn't.

But to accommodate anyone who is sorely disappointed in my 'review', let me add our findings after the second play (finished about an hour ago).

It was incredibly close. The FP won the day when the Ringbearers, accompanied by Legolas (Gimli died earlier) and lead by Strider, destroyed the ring with a ridiculous low amount of corruption, namely 5 (3 from the final tile). Just one more die for the SP and it would have been a SP victory (9 VP).

We were already familiar with most of the components of LoME since the expansion from the 1E base game. As noted, Corsairs and Ents are missing, but Elrond is a nice addition and so are the extra dice for the Elven Rings and the minions. (By the way, if you own 1E with the BotTA expansion, you probably already added two Smeagol tiles to the Hunt pool in the past, so be careful not to add two more.)

IMHO the bite of LoME is in the changed character cards and the Elven ring die for Gandalf the Grey. The latter makes Gandalfs departure from the fellowship slightly less urgent. The changed character cards allow you to split the fellowship even before it was one. It's now possible to have Meriadoc and/or Peregrin start in the Shire to get the North into play (very) early, or you can start Boromir in Minas Tirith to do the same there. For Gimli and Legolas I found this less useful, because the Dwarfs are too few to be bothered with and the Elfs begin the game activated already and also do not have that many units to begin with. Besides that, Legolas and Gimli are probably more useful for the fellowship or as leaders elsewhere.

Boromir and the hobbits however really expand the FP's possibilities. Our first play - yesterday - took only 15 minutes because the SP was too keen on his military schemes to pay attention to Dol Guldur and Gundabad, which he left defenseless. The North was already at war and four bowmen calmly walked into the fortresses and claimed a military victory.

The second play the FP again had the hobbits start in the Shire, but this time the North saw little action, due to inconvenient cards and action dice. Boromir however, was able to make the assault on Minas Tirith less appealing than normal. Of course this only shifted the attention of the SP to Rohan, Erebor and the Elven strongholds, but it felt fresh.

Conclusion

After BotTA, we never played 1E again without TotTA, so the question whether we should purchase LoME was moot. Is LoME as much fun in 2E as TotTA is in 1E? Is it worth for 1E+BottTA owners to pay for an overpriced expansion with little in it to begin with, of which half they already own?

I have to say, yes. The different strategies definitely give the game a boost and so do the new possibilities of the Elven rings.

But its still pricey. And they should have added sleeves.

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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
No, it isn't. But it's not a session either, or News, or PBF, or variant or rules or strategy related. And since I didn't think its General either (it does contain info which 1E owners might want to know in advance) I labeled it the only remaining choice.

It's definitely General, which is the catch-all for things that don't make sense in the other folders. The real problem is with the GeekMods, who are asleep at the switch once again. They should have voted this down as a review, and directed you to General in their comments.
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
But to accommodate anyone who is sorely disappointed in my 'review', let me add our findings after the second play (finished about an hour ago).

Thanks for that. You might consider pasting it into the original post; I imagine many will see the rant and never look farther.

As for the source of your distress, if it means so much to you I don't see why you didn't investigate what comes in the expansion before purchasing. Anyone like yourself who uses BGG could find out that there were no ents or corsairs by simply opening the game page and scrolling down to the Description and More Information features. Whether you could fit the sleeved extas into the upgrade tin might have taken a bit more trouble, but I'm sure you'd have found out in short order had you posted the question.
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Jan Tuijp
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Sphere wrote:
As for the source of your distress, if it means so much to you I don't see why you didn't investigate what comes in the expansion before purchasing.


Because I trusted the publisher. Yes, I am that stupid. And I firmly believe other people to be stupid too. The rant is definitely a review in the sense that it could alert other buyers to adjust their expectations.

 
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I am in the same situation, so I havent sleeved the character cards. But: as there will be two more mini-expansions (which will include some cards as well I guess), it would be a good idea to get a set of Mayfair sleeves so there are enough for now and future expansions.

I got the localized German version of upgrade and LoME so both cost me only 35 euro (incl. Treebeard Promo) in total. After having tried out LoME, I'm sure never to play without it anymore. It speeds up gameplay in the first couple of turns (more dice, albeit minor ones) and makes it easier to pursue a strategy according to your starting card hand.
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Eric Ho
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Just to clear up any down the road confusion. They're Mayday sleeves, not MAYFAIR.

LINK
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Roberto Di Meglio
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To clarify Ares' point of view on the topic.
Sleeves are an accessory. Not everybody uses them. As they have a non-zero cost, if we included them inside every LOME box, there would be people complaining that they had to pay for sleeves they already have, or would not use.

The Tin box (and upgrade kit) were designed as an accessory to the core game, and we could not foresee how many extra sleeves we'd need to support future expansions. So we included in this tin just enough sleeves to cover the core game, with a minimum of extras for additional safety.
If you feel the need to sleeve LOME and future expansion, either a 2nd tin box (we just released a new one) or just a pack of Mayday's sleeves will fit the bill. As far as we can forecast, a 2nd tin will store not only LOME, but the other 2 WOTR expansions we plan to release.


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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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cybernex wrote:
either a 2nd tin box (we just released a new one)



Wow, this is news to me! Cool! I just checked it out, new image with Gandalf, nice. Great idea and I will likely order that with my LoME copy when I eventually order that.
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Riccardo Simoni
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cybernex wrote:
.... but the other 2 WOTR expansions we plan to release.



Ciao Roberto,

since you mentioned them, can you share something about the expansions road map? any ETA? (I don't expect any commitment of course but just a rough idea on when is the best moment to start saving money for the next one )

Riccardo
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Roberto Di Meglio
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It's early to talk about release dates. We're working on the 2nd Expansion (based around the "factions" in BoTTA, expanding and re-designing them as we did with characters in Lords of Middle-earth). It's our goal to get it out before the end of the year, but we don't have a release date yet.
After this, we expect to have at least one more expansion, probably sometime in 2014, with 2nd Edition Siege Engines, and new elements "related" to them.
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Gabriel Alonso
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
Sphere wrote:
As for the source of your distress, if it means so much to you I don't see why you didn't investigate what comes in the expansion before purchasing.


Because I trusted the publisher. Yes, I am that stupid. And I firmly believe other people to be stupid too. The rant is definitely a review in the sense that it could alert other buyers to adjust their expectations.



Ridiculous. There is a Gandalf tin for the expansion that comes with sleeves. If you didn't know what came in the game before ordering that's your problem not the publisher. Don't assume other people are as stupid as you claim to be.
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Jan Tuijp
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I still think this thread constitutes a review, but apparently one of the moderators decided otherwise and changed it to General, without having the courtesy to mention it.

 
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