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Subject: When you can't reason with people... rss

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Garcian Smith
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So after my last game of Battlestar Galactica, I'm not sure if I ever want to play these types of games again. The situation was that it was my first turn and I, as the pilot wanted to go out into space. I suggested it to the group and it was met with fierce resistance, so then I took another matter of action which was to give myself cards to better my next turn. Then the entire table accuses me of being a cylon and I was promptly thrown into the brig on the next turn, which I would be staying in until the end of the game.

So my story is just there to illustrate what can happen in these type of group decision games. What if the best course of action is objectively X and then entire table thinks its Y? Imagine this was Pandemic and you know for sure that the next card over will end the game but nobody listens to you and badaboom, badabing the game ends? Or if it's Cosmic Encounter and you are perceived to be the biggest threat and are constantly wailed on, even if you have 0 planets are are the lowest position to score?

In my situation I determined that their responses were illogical and the fact that they came to this big conclusion in such a quick amount of time meant that they could not be reasoned with. So I essentially gave up and played for my amusement by sabotaging the humans (my own team). Essentially, I tried to end the game as soon as possible to make more time to play other games.
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Boaty McBoatface
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The chances of a successful jump is very poor if this as your first turn . Also on the first turn there is not a major Cylon threat (you should only ever emergency jump if you are in real peril). So I can see perfectly well why they thought you were a Cylon as you tried to do something dangerous that had no purpose and then (from your description) did nothing.
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David B
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The approach I have taken is to avoid co-ops, unless it's for solo play.
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Erik Twice
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So your way of proving you are not a traitor is to do treasonous things and then when "caught" do more trasonous things?

And you call your opponents "irrational"? They are not the ones complaining on the internet!
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Boaty McBoatface
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I cannot help but be reminded of the first game of the new edition of Space Hulk I played where the Gene stealer would not understand the action point rule (about him having to tell me I have spent them, else I have not (crap rule but then it's GW)). If I had been an arse I could have won the scenario on the first turn.
 
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Addison Fox
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slatersteven wrote:
The chances of a successful jump is very poor if this as your first turn . Also on the first turn there is not a major Cylon threat (you should only ever emergency jump if you are in real peril). So I can see perfectly well why they thought you were a Cylon as you tried to do something dangerous that had no purpose and then (from your description) did nothing.

Where does Jumping come into this? Unless his last edit completely changed his post, it looks like he wanted to hop in a viper (something that should NEVER be met with fierce resistance, especially if they think you're a cylon).
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Garcian Smith
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pfctsqr wrote:
The approach I have taken is to avoid co-ops, unless it's for solo play.
Well the other thing is also for diplomatic games like free-for-all battle games where one player could be clearly winning, but other people are fighting with you over something trivial. I guess that's why I prefer 1 on 1 games or team vs team games.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DaMullet wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
The chances of a successful jump is very poor if this as your first turn . Also on the first turn there is not a major Cylon threat (you should only ever emergency jump if you are in real peril). So I can see perfectly well why they thought you were a Cylon as you tried to do something dangerous that had no purpose and then (from your description) did nothing.

Where does Jumping come into this? Unless his last edit completely changed his post, it looks like he wanted to hop in a viper (something that should NEVER be met with fierce resistance, especially if they think you're a cylon).
Misread his post (I think), is that what you wanted to do?
 
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Kris Rhodes
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Revelade wrote:
So after my last game of Battlestar Galactica, I'm not sure if I ever want to play these types of games again. The situation was that it was my first turn and I, as the pilot wanted to go out into space. I suggested it to the group and it was met with fierce resistance, so then I took another matter of action which was to give myself cards to better my next turn. Then the entire table accuses me of being a cylon and I was promptly thrown into the brig on the next turn, which I would be staying in until the end of the game.

So my story is just there to illustrate what can happen in these type of group decision games. What if the best course of action is objectively X and then entire table thinks its Y? Imagine this was Pandemic and you know for sure that the next card over will end the game but nobody listens to you and badaboom, badabing the game ends? Or if it's Cosmic Encounter and you are perceived to be the biggest threat and are constantly wailed on, even if you have 0 planets are are the lowest position to score?

In my situation I determined that their responses were illogical and the fact that they came to this big conclusion in such a quick amount of time meant that they could not be reasoned with. So I essentially gave up and played for my amusement by sabotaging the humans (my own team). Essentially, I tried to end the game as soon as possible to make more time to play other games.


The answer to your question is, when you can't reason with people in a co-op game, you and your teammates will lose the game. I am not sure there is much more to say than that. How to persuade them? That's going to depend highly on your group's social dynamics and... how shall I put it... intelligence level.
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tommy wortley jr.
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it really seems like part of this story is missing. like your reasonings for doing what you did. the reasons they were doing what they did.

seems like you did not get your way, had a tantrum, did what you wanted and the group disapproved.
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Neil Brooks
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Revelade wrote:
In my situation I determined that their responses were illogical and the fact that they came to this big conclusion in such a quick amount of time meant that they could not be reasoned with. So I essentially gave up and played for my amusement by sabotaging the humans (my own team). Essentially, I tried to end the game as soon as possible to make more time to play other games.

So basically, the group disagreed with you and you took the huff. Unless there's details that you're omitting for this post, I would opine that you're the problem here, friend.
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Uffe
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Revelade wrote:
the entire table accuses me of being a cylon and I was promptly thrown into the brig on the next turn, which I would be staying in until the end of the game.

At least one of the persons that accused you was probably a cylon. Perhaps it was even the cylon that took the initiative to throw a vote to brig you. False accusations is a part of the game. The entire group might not have made the most logical action but the cylons probably did something right.
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Johan Haglert
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DaMullet wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
The chances of a successful jump is very poor if this as your first turn . Also on the first turn there is not a major Cylon threat (you should only ever emergency jump if you are in real peril). So I can see perfectly well why they thought you were a Cylon as you tried to do something dangerous that had no purpose and then (from your description) did nothing.

Where does Jumping come into this? Unless his last edit completely changed his post, it looks like he wanted to hop in a viper (something that should NEVER be met with fierce resistance, especially if they think you're a cylon).
Oh, I read it wrong to.

I don't see much problem with getting out in a viper either. There's not all that much interesting things you can do in the first place. And if this is your first game then it's rather obvious that you think launching yourself into a viper is a good thing to do since you're actually a pilot.

The draw more cards was the engineer room or whatever it is? Are those cards ever all that useful unless you need to repair? (Or play negative cards? =P), but as someone new to the game it may still have made sense.

Guess one alternative would had been to ask the others what they thought you should do or they should just had accepted what you wanted to do or suggest something else.

This game got the obvious issue with brigging people without them deserving that but if they deserved that shouldn't they soon reveal themself? Unless new to the game. And if they don't maybe it's time to get them out again? But that's something a cylon would say.. Of course .. (I say fuck it, reveal early if a cylon.)

Anyway, suck that your experience was ruined this way :/, it's a risk in the game. If you was new to it I wish they would had been nicer, guess they either had more experience and was very aggressive or didn't had it but knew they didn't wanted any cylons around (also for obvious reasons it would make sense for someone who actually was a cylon to try to convince the others you was one..)



Anyway try to not take it personal, they are likely reasonable but tried to play the game as good as they could. They don't dislike YOU because you was sent to the brig. They just didn't wanted to have a cylon ruining their game. (And if you was a human and was sent to the brig I guess they failed and lost anyway so well, at least you've got that =P)
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Johan Haglert
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Revelade wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
The approach I have taken is to avoid co-ops, unless it's for solo play.
Well the other thing is also for diplomatic games like free-for-all battle games where one player could be clearly winning, but other people are fighting with you over something trivial. I guess that's why I prefer 1 on 1 games or team vs team games.
Multi player games are always a mess.

Team vs team I would guess would be ok as long as they are balanced since they would be just like 1 vs 1 games (well, if there are two teams that is =P), but more than two parties and bad things will happen.

Also a two player game let you play more in general, less waiting is a good thing , third you don't need as many persons to play with, fourth it likely use up less space to =P
 
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Robert Stuart
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I've only played one co-op game, once, many years ago. We almost won.

However, let me offer this: the secret to playing a co-op game is to get the group on your side. If they do something irrational you have to go along, and be loyal, until, somehow, without annoying them, you bring them around to your way of thinking. It's sort of like life.

If you aren't willing to do that, or aren't temperamentally suited to that sort of thing, you shouldn't be playing a co-op game.
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A boy named Sioux
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I can't help but wonder if your attitude and reaction don't plant the seeds for this kind of situation. shake
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Everything the OP hates about co-op are why I love it. Co-ops should be about playing personalities and their vast differences, and winning is successfully uniting them for a common goal. The game itself is secondary, IMHO. Running a personality game with Logic alone is doomed to failure.
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RJD
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Wait... I'm still a little confused. They threw you in the brig before or after you decided to start sabotaging humanity?

Why would they throw a person in the brig for giving themselves cards to better their hand? Is that a bad thing in BSG?
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The Teej Of Lockshire
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....were you a cylon?! @_@
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Andrzej Stewart
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Unless there's more to the story here, it sounds like your group was being a bit idiotic. Getting your pilots out in Vipers and blowing up Raiders isn't a bad idea, especially since the game starts with ships on the board (this becomes even more important if you have the Cylon Fleet Board expansion in play). As an alternative, unless you're pulling Traitor cards (Pegasus expansion), pulling extra skill cards isn't a bad thing either unless you have something more important to do. What character were you, and what exactly did they think you should be doing?

That being said, I'd suggest not giving up on BSG or other games like this. Instead, consider playing it with a different group instead. Some groups are just dysfunctional in semi co-ops.
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Kevin B. Smith
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pfctsqr wrote:
The approach I have taken is to avoid co-ops, unless it's for solo play.

aliquis wrote:
Multi player games are always a mess.

bob_santafe wrote:
the secret to playing a co-op game is to get the group on your side.

MWChapel wrote:
Everything the OP hates about co-op are why I love it.

To me (and to many of us), the term "co-op" means *pure* co-op, like Pandemic. The story in the OP would obviously never happen in a pure co-op. And "multi-player" to me just means any game where there are more than 2 players (e.g. Ticket to Ride).

On the other hand, what I would call "Traitor" games, "semi-cooperative" games, "diplomacy" games, and "hidden team" games, all could result in a story something like the OP. With bluffing and betrayal baked in, distrust can result in (seemingly) irrational behavior. While I wouldn't have enjoyed being in the OP's position, I wouldn't have found it all that surprising either. Personally I would have caved in to the groups wishes right away, knowing that looking like a team player is really important (regardless of which side you are on).

I'll happily play co-op games, but have almost managed to avoid playing any deception-based games like BSG and The Resistance. I did get roped into BANG! last weekend, and it lived down to my expectations.

EDIT: Fixed typo
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Clinton Coddington
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I've been stuck in games I don't like because it's what the majority of the group wants to play so I just try and make the best of it.
Honestly, for every game I don't like that I've been stuck playing, I've played 100 games I do like.
Seems to me like it all balances out in the end.
Just my $0.02 on nothing in particular...
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I won't answer because I refuse to talk to cylons. goo
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J Holmes
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As for BSG I doubt you'll have to worry about playing again, people arent likely to want to invite you to play that game after your performance as described in the first post.

As for the rest of your post, maybe your current games group are just playing for the fun of playing and arent trying particularly hard to win.
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William Boykin
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If you can't reason with people.....


.....Don't play games that involve diplomacy or negotiation.

Please.

Darilian
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