Recommend
40 
 Thumb up
 Hide
118 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: USPS increases international shipping rates - P500 implications rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mario Grubisic
Croatia
Stobrec
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Pretty much 99% of my wargaming plans revolved around NWS Online and GMT P500, since even with the shipping, it was quite a bit cheaper than the EU shops... I saw that Noble Knight Games offers an affordable (but probably slow) shipping method called FIMS, anyone have any experience with that?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Daglish
United Kingdom
Cheadle
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mcszarka wrote:
Well I will think twice for sure about any games with mounted maps.


its already hard to resell them within the EU.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Lawrence
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
designer
Hey! That tickles!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alphawolf wrote:

It works in the RPG business because all you need is a handful (or more given AD&D ) books and your imagination...



And for the most part you can just view them on your tablet and never actually print them out.

Printing out (and mounting) maps and counters would be expensive and time-consuming. I prefer to put that kind of effort into miniatures that I'll never play with. shake
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wolfgang Kunz
Germany
Netphen
flag msg tools
badge
I'm German. That's what we do...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
minko wrote:
Pretty much 99% of my wargaming plans revolved around NWS Online and GMT P500, since even with the shipping, it was quite a bit cheaper than the EU shops... I saw that Noble Knight Games offers an affordable (but probably slow) shipping method called FIMS, anyone have any experience with that?


I used it sometimes since it was cheap and I had no problems with it. The time span was often lower than announced and no package was ever lost. But NK is a hell of a store (meant positively - to make sure).
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wolfgang Kunz
Germany
Netphen
flag msg tools
badge
I'm German. That's what we do...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
isaacc wrote:

Don't forget that P500 is not simply a matter of gauging interest. P500 is a significant earner for companies like GMT and MMP. While they sell games directly at 60%-75% of MSRP while on pre-order, they sell games to distributors at 30%.

.


You' re on to something here. The companies have to become "creative" about it. Maybe they go for a "European office" and work together (GMT, MMP, L&L etc.). You create such an office that is no more than a place that ships packages all over Europe (for example). Once a month or every second month they receive a huge container, split the packages and send them to everyone who has ordered / Px-ed them.

Those that want to have a game instantly after it's release still can pre-order the game directly from the company. The others Px as before, wait a bit longer but avoid those bloody shipping costs.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
António Vale
Belgium
Brussels
flag msg tools
mb
Alphawolf wrote:
You' re on to something here. The companies have to become "creative" about it. Maybe they go for a "European office" and work together (GMT, MMP, L&L etc.). You create such an office that is no more than a place that ships packages all over Europe (for example). Once a month or every second month they receive a huge container, split the packages and send them to everyone who has ordered / Px-ed them.
Actually, since a lot of the components are printed not in the US but in China, they could ship them directly to Europe instead of going to the US, and then assemble and ship the games from here. You'd still have to pay VAT, but would save on customs fees and shipping. Plus the company would get a larger fraction of the income and be more easily able to meet P500 numbers. Not sure that would be enough to cover the added expenses, though.
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
avale wrote:
Actually, since a lot of the components are printed not in the US but in China, they could ship them directly to Europe instead of going to the US, and then assemble and ship the games from here. You'd still have to pay VAT, but would save on customs fees and shipping. Plus the company would get a larger fraction of the income and be more easily able to meet P500 numbers. Not sure that would be enough to cover the added expenses, though.


Yep, that's what I thought too.
Of course, it would require to:

a) Assess how high the demand in Europe (for example) is and send x% of the components there.
b) Find the country with the lowest shipping rates _and_ affordable taxes for GMT/MMP.
c) Get a Warehouse and workingcraft to pack and ship the games. (This could be done once each X months/weeks, only the warehouse is really needed).

I'm not sure if the Wargame demand in Europe would be high enough to allow for such a thing, that's why I thought about the "big ones" working together on this (thus getting a broader costumer base to start with).

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
Yes, PnP Case Blue might suck up quite a few inkjet cartridges. laugh.


Think of it as "clipping Pro" and it sounds somehow more appealing
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
António Vale
Belgium
Brussels
flag msg tools
mb
Sancherib wrote:

a) Assess how high the demand in Europe (for example) is and send x% of the components there.
b) Find the country with the lowest shipping rates _and_ affordable taxes for GMT/MMP.
Their advantage is that they already have a system to assess demand in the P500 pre-orders; that should allow them a good estimate of what number of components to ship to Europe. Plus they could probably explore the possibility of shipping from Jersey or one of those islands like a lot of the online shops in Europe do to save on taxes.

Like I said, I have no idea whether the added revenue and pre-orders would be enough to justify the costs, but I'd think the different publishers would have the necessary data to judge this.

And I certainly hope they give it some thought, because with all the customs charges I've been hit with before I've given up on the whole P500 idea.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They could try to do all of this partnering with some boardgame producer in Europe.
Of course, the problem is that the big producers are into Eurogames
But maybe Hexasim? (Even if shipping pricesout of france are outrageous).
Who would be big enough to help with this?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
MENTE, MANU ET INSTRUMENTUM
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Yes, indeed...all that are excellent ideas. It's called a distributor.

The distributor will deal with all that shipping, import and customs stuff. However, a distributor is not inclined to deal with individual item processing.

No worries, there is already an idea in place to handle individual orders--retailers.

Instead of GMT dealing with all the complexities of setting up foreign offices, they sell to distributors at 30% of MSRP and in turn distributors sell to retailers at 50% of MSRP. Moreover, GMT and MMP are selling direct-to-consumer on pre-order at 75% MSRP.

We become part of the supply chain by picking up the game at our FLGS. Or, pay a shipping company to deliver it right to our door.

Supply chain is not the problem. The last partner in the transaction scope is the shipping company who has dramatically raised prices. He is not stupid and sees/believes that he can ask for a larger piece of the pie.

There are a gagillion costs associated with a product. Most are internalized in the price. Shipping cost has been externalized. If they want, GMT, MMP or any retailer can just raise prices by 25% and announce "free shipping". Or, they can lower prices and announce a "printing fee," "boxing fee," or whatnot.


Having said that, I agree that perhaps hooking up with an established retailer per host country, in particular in Canada, may be one option. I don't know if local distributors would like that, with MMP and GMT products suddenly dropping off distributors' catalogues.
.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
isaacc wrote:

Yes, indeed...all that are excellent ideas. It's called a distributor.
(snip)
Supply chain is not the problem. The last partner in the transaction scope is the shipping company who has dramatically raised prices. He is not stupid and sees/believes that he can ask for a larger piece of the pie.


Not exactly what I meant, as your second point is indeed the big problem.

GMT (for example) produces in China, the question would be at which point it could be advantageous for them to ship part of the production to a second assembly place for international orders. After that you'd have the normal distributors _or_ you would just sell directly to the costumers (to make a bit more profit).

I wonder how many costumers are over in Europe and how many would make such a thing profitable.

(and, out of kindness, I wonder if the same would be doable in Canada )
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
Look Up! Stay Alive!
badge
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
southern_cross_116 wrote:


With the Australian dollar's value so high (compared to the US dollar), it already is not worth the effort to sell anything to the US (even less so with the postage rates from here.



Yes, for another reason.

Pay via Paypal for anything and the "Paypal exchange rate" adds ~4 cents onto the US/AUS exchange rate (making the AUS$ about = US$ right now, rather then ahead) and THEN charges again to use the Paypal service.

I understand companies making money, but this double whammy is piracy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
Look Up! Stay Alive!
badge
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a bit of a pain for me as, coming to non-miniature wargaming late, I'm busily finding older games second hand.

The price of a number of items I was watching increased by ~US$15 a week or so ago and I wondered why. This explains it.

Now I have to really want something to buy it as the extra price puts something Just Acceptable into the Too Rich zone.


usrlocal wrote:


I would Definitely NOT want to PnP games like It Never Snows or Case Blue.



I have started a PnP of The Longest Day The maps are printed and I'm looking for cardboard for the counter sheets.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
Look Up! Stay Alive!
badge
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
Damjon wrote:
I have started a PnP of The Longest Day The maps are printed and I'm looking for cardboard for the counter sheets.


Seriously? You're going to need a pizza cutter for those round counters.


Seriously, though it's more a long term project. When the time comes I'll make a punch from a piece of sharpened stainless steel tubing and a dowel rod for pushing the counters out. Not good enough for commercial purposes, but just fine for me.

Mind you, the up side of this postage increase is that as it will result in me buying less games*, I may have a greater chance of playing the ones I have.


*No promises, but you never know.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
out to lunch wrote:
Sometimes I ended up buying from Hexasim in France even though I live in Japan - shipping rates are €7 for one game - even the super heavy ones like deluxe Here I Stand -, and €3 for each additional game.

By comparison, shipping the same game from the US will cost me $60, and $20 more for each additional game.

But in recent months the euro has gained 25% compared to the yen so it might not be the best solution anymore. I've got enough games as it is now so it's not really a problem though.


Wow, hadn't noticed that. It would seem that Hexasim is a great way to get GMT games in Europe!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Janik-Jones
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Up Front fan | In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this | Combat Commander series fan | The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me! | Fields of Fire fan
badge
Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Odd thing is that the (quite heavy) Sergeants Miniatures Game by Lost Battalion is still being shipping to Canuckistan for less than $18. So, feeling bad after cancelling Operation Dauntless, I had to cheer myself up somehow, right?

Right? (That's what you'll all tell my wife when she calls.)

whistle

(And my purchase the other day of the superbly re-done To The Last Man! is being shipped free!)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffry Welfare
Australia
Guildford
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
So, as you may or may not be aware, as of today USPS international shipping rates have just gone through the roof (just verified that a typically-sized wargame will now cost around $40 to ship from USA to Canada via Priority Mail International - more ($50 and beyond) for larger and heavier wargames).

Does anyone know how this impacts existing P500 orders with companies like GMT and MMP? We've had our credit cards 'charged' with S&H calculated at the older postal rates, correct? Will companies honor those quoted prices or will total amounts be recalculated prior to shipping? If vendors don't recalculate to account for shipping increases, I don't see how they can honor their international preorders without taking a financial hit.


Well I'm going to guess that the rate increases had been advertised as coming for a while, so anything that had charged would already have the rate in. Can't say what you see from Canada but my preorders from GMT don't actually have a shipping rate in till it is go time, so they haven't actually given an amount yet. As others have noted though, GMT at least usually charge less than the sticker amount. I'm guessing that the difference gets charged as a business expense now anyway.


usrlocal wrote:
Should international customers cancel preorders from US companies and buy locally for these reasons? Seems that either the customer or the vendor is going to have to absorb a pretty significant price increase one way or the other if existing P500 orders are shipped under the new rates.


For me, no. The cost of shipping is going up anywhich way I get it, and well, let's be honest here, shipping is always expensive for me. Just the way it is. When I buy from the US I just get to see that seperated out. When I buy locally that shipping cost is in the price of the game already. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

usrlocal wrote:

And the bigger questions:

1) Non-US customers - how will this impact your online shopping from US companies?
2) US sellers/traders - will you bother to ship internationally anymore?
3) Given the relatively small size of our hobby, what impact will this all have on US-based publishers?

Given how most of us either receive or ship wargames internationally, these are legitimate questions that deserve some reasonable discussion here, IMHO. Let's please keep this civil and more or less on-topic.


Well for #1, the only real change I can think is it might mean I use the Fedex/UPS option more. USPS usually takes about 2 weeks to reach me, the other two options half that. If the shipping costs for USPS starts getting right up there with the courier company options, then why wouldn't I. Not as if I've ever been charged here those brokerage fees that everyone else seems to complain about.

For #3, well my guess is pretty much nill. As small as the hobby is, the simple matter is the companies in it still would make their money from the USA. Us foreigners would be a relative small percentage of their revenue. It might, maybe, slow down P500 preorders or mean that more P500 orders get cancelled just before shipping, but really that is not going to be a huge difference.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Taylor
Germany
Niederbachem-wachtberg
Nord Rhein Westphalia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Sancherib wrote:
out to lunch wrote:
Sometimes I ended up buying from Hexasim in France even though I live in Japan - shipping rates are €7 for one game - even the super heavy ones like deluxe Here I Stand -, and €3 for each additional game.

By comparison, shipping the same game from the US will cost me $60, and $20 more for each additional game.

But in recent months the euro has gained 25% compared to the yen so it might not be the best solution anymore. I've got enough games as it is now so it's not really a problem though.


Wow, hadn't noticed that. It would seem that Hexasim is a great way to get GMT games in Europe!


ANd a great way to get MMP games and a host of others, I've used them and they are excellent, highly responsive bunch.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
J.L.: Interesting idea re: network of 'wargame runners', but our Customs officers may raise an eyebrow at a backseat full of wargames at a border crossing.


Yeah, that's a downside to smuggling war games,... they are very hard to swallow....gulp

Besides who has the time, imagine how long you'd be in the toilet trying to pass all them counters..goo

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
MENTE, MANU ET INSTRUMENTUM
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Where did this $30 and $40 thing come from?

As a test, I added The Blitzkrieg Legend ($110) to my cart at MMP and the shipping to Canada was $28. I added Combat Commander-Europe to my cart at GMT and shipping to Canada was $10.
.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evil Bob
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
isaacc wrote:

Where did this $30 and $40 thing come from?

As a test, I added The Blitzkrieg Legend ($110) to my cart at MMP and the shipping to Canada was $28. I added Combat Commander-Europe to my cart at GMT and shipping to Canada was $10.
.


I just called GMT Games and asked about the shipping increase. The nice lady mentioned that they haven't updated their website with new rates yet, so for now everything is the same as it was last week. They should be updating things in the next few days. For now you can still order on the website or over the phone and take advantage of the old shipping rates.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
"L'état, c'est moi."
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
badge
Caution: May contain wargame like substance
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
*sigh* Just cancelled all my preorders with MMP and GMT. shake

Even with the higher shipping costs, a preordered game from get is less than what my FLGS charges for war games, so it's not going to affect my preorders. At worst I can have them switch to my Point Roberts ship to address.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
MENTE, MANU ET INSTRUMENTUM
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:
isaacc wrote:

Where did this $30 and $40 thing come from?

As a test, I added The Blitzkrieg Legend ($110) to my cart at MMP and the shipping to Canada was $28. I added Combat Commander-Europe to my cart at GMT and shipping to Canada was $10.
.


USPS Medium Flat Rate box (13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8" or 11" x 8-1/2" x 5-1/2") to Canada: $40.95. And this might not fit Blitzkrieg Legend.

Check my previous post in this thread. MMP is inviting us outside the USA to cancel our preorders because they'll otherwise need to apply the new shipping rates.


Peter, fair enough. Perhaps it is wise to see what GMT and MMP will actually charge. That flat rate box you pointed to is the price that John Q Public pays. Companies have preferred rates and a slew of other options, like shipping on Saturdays. MMP doesn't use the flat rate boxes and doesn't ship to Canada with a service that uses insurance and tracking.

I'd like to see if an average game is going from $10 to $30 in shipping or $10 to $15.
.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
Look Up! Stay Alive!
badge
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
usrlocal wrote:


Roger - I just cannot swallow the idea of paying as much or more in shipping as the cost of the item.


This has been the case for AusNZ for awhile. Unfortunately. I find it strange that Canada now has the same problem.

What are the other post options for companies to send international?
Fedex.. ?

How do they compare?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.