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Subject: USPS increases international shipping rates - P500 implications rss

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dustin boggs
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Mallet wrote:
moly19 wrote:
Quote:
Canadian Scotch Whiskey


It can't be both 'Scotch' and 'Canadian', mate

If you would like to learn more and are prepared to bring over the required 'research tools' and 'visual aids' I will tell you allllll about it. We'll begin with the single malts and work our way down to rye...


Well, if we have a Canadian Scottish Regiment, we surely must have the Whiskey that comes with it, right ?

My father was part of that unit and saw action in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany in WW II. He is still alive at 95 years old.


Well they did a batch of scotch for their recent 100th year anniversary so yes.

Cristsakes I have a P500 for D-Day at Omaha Beach and Enemy Action Ardennes (already paid) I desperately want as well as several GMTs. No way I will pay that much for shipping. I will have a talk with Starlit to see if they will import.

Really curious how this will affect kickstarter stuff especially stuff like UpFront which included 10$ shipping
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Freddy Dekker
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Hm, seems like the mayans predicted the end of the gaming world, and were just off by a month.
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ramkitty wrote:
Really curious how this will affect kickstarter stuff especially stuff like UpFront which included 10$ shipping

The $10 was an uplift to ship it to Canada, so they were eating the shipping costs anyways.

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usrlocal wrote:
isaacc wrote:

Where did this $30 and $40 thing come from?

As a test, I added The Blitzkrieg Legend ($110) to my cart at MMP and the shipping to Canada was $28. I added Combat Commander-Europe to my cart at GMT and shipping to Canada was $10.
.


USPS Medium Flat Rate box (13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8" or 11" x 8-1/2" x 5-1/2") to Canada: $40.95. And this might not fit Blitzkrieg Legend.

Check my previous post in this thread. MMP is inviting us outside the USA to cancel our preorders because they'll otherwise need to apply the new shipping rates.


Same size box to England was $59.95, had to decline a very tempting trade proposal because of the freight.
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isaacc wrote:

Yes, indeed...all that are excellent ideas. It's called a distributor.

The distributor will deal with all that shipping, import and customs stuff. However, a distributor is not inclined to deal with individual item processing.

No worries, there is already an idea in place to handle individual orders--retailers.

Instead of GMT dealing with all the complexities of setting up foreign offices, they sell to distributors at 30% of MSRP and in turn distributors sell to retailers at 50% of MSRP. Moreover, GMT and MMP are selling direct-to-consumer on pre-order at 75% MSRP.

We become part of the supply chain by picking up the game at our FLGS. Or, pay a shipping company to deliver it right to our door.

Supply chain is not the problem. The last partner in the transaction scope is the shipping company who has dramatically raised prices. He is not stupid and sees/believes that he can ask for a larger piece of the pie.

There are a gagillion costs associated with a product. Most are internalized in the price. Shipping cost has been externalized. If they want, GMT, MMP or any retailer can just raise prices by 25% and announce "free shipping". Or, they can lower prices and announce a "printing fee," "boxing fee," or whatnot.


Having said that, I agree that perhaps hooking up with an established retailer per host country, in particular in Canada, may be one option. I don't know if local distributors would like that, with MMP and GMT products suddenly dropping off distributors' catalogues.
.


This program would lead to the same outcome as the modern RPG has suffered - GMT would cease to exist as the company it is now and would file bankruptcy. All those fingers in the pie mean they get to make the rules and that would kill GMT game theory and design. Games covering obscure events in history or 'hot topic' titles like Labyrinth would never be published. Also, raising prices that much would also kill the market. Game prices are already high and to charge what would be more than $100 for many games...well...the creator of Where There Is Discord jumped the price $50 and most of the people, myself included, dropped out. Only one US distribution point, full retail ($150) plus shipping? I think I'm searching for another Falklands game at this point.

I live in a suburb of a fairly large metro area and there isn't an 'FLGS' within 60-100 miles. There are maybe 3 comic book stores where you can order stuff (at full retail price) but they are awful places. I'll leave that at that.

I think that the market will shift but I don't see things like the P500 program going away and without hard numbers I would say that North America is the majority of their business. Canada proves to be a problem but that has been going on for years. A small distribution center near the border where another on the other side of the border would burn $10 worth of gas to drive and then ship out from the Canadian side solves that mess.

And digital sales rising would be the end of the hobby as well. Again, RPGs are dead commercially. Between all the free product created through the Open Game License and the piracy of anything that can be scanned into a pdf it would do the same to the ConSim market as the RPG. Boardgames have continued to rise in sales because you can't scan wooden cubes, thousands of cards,etc. I'm not knocking on DTP companies (as I am forming one myself) but they are a different beast. You can't sell a pdf for $99 and expect the customer to do all the assembly and also you lose the quality of the components in such games.

It's going to take some interesting solutions to solve the issues but adding more people and paper work to the process is not the answer. Maybe all the game companies pitch in on the border idea and just handle it that way.
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moly19 wrote:
Quote:
Canadian Scotch Whiskey


It can't be both 'Scotch' and 'Canadian', mate

If you would like to learn more and are prepared to bring over the required 'research tools' and 'visual aids' I will tell you allllll about it. We'll begin with the single malts and work our way down to rye...


...unless its actually made and bottled in India....shake
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Rob Ryan wrote:


...unless its actually made and bottled in India....shake


Indian Scotch Canadian whiskey? gulp
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Damjon wrote:
Rob Ryan wrote:


...unless its actually made and bottled in India....shake


Indian Scotch Canadian whiskey? gulp


They actually make imitation scotch whiskey in India (okay, not canadien)
from wiki:
The drinking of Scotch whisky was introduced into India during the nineteenth century, during the period of the British Raj. Scotch-style whisky is the most popular sort of distilled alcoholic beverage in India. Whisky, however, has become fashionable for wealthier Indians, and as such the market for whisky among affluent Indians is one of the largest in the world.[1] Brand names of Indian molasses whisky, including "Bagpiper", "McDowell's No. 1",[6] "MaQintosh"[4] suggest that the inspiration behind the Indian whiskies is Scotch whisky, despite these products being chiefly made from molasses.

gulp
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suicidepuppet wrote:


... and without hard numbers I would say that North America is the majority of their business. Canada proves to be a problem but that has been going on for years. A small distribution center near the border where another on the other side of the border would burn $10 worth of gas to drive and then ship out from the Canadian side solves that mess.



Just for your information:

Washington's War: 500 copies German + English copies
White Star Rising German ed.: 300 - 500 copies (don't have the exact numbers here)
Steel Wolves: 500 copies German edition plus English copies
Virgin Queen: 500 copies German Edition plus English copies

Not to speak about German Editions of Napoleonic Wars, Twilight Struggle, Dominant Species, Path of Glory aso.

I would suggest that given a typical GMT game we'll see at least 40 % of the game shipped to Europe and Asia. You might be right with your "mostly American" assumption given smaller obscure companies or 1-man-shows (it is far expensive to buy L2 Design Games over here compared to GMT / MMP f. ex. with a big lack in availability).

The distribution center - as suggested by others too - would work for Europe if some distributors are willing to work together - meaning that they use the same center. I agree with you that if you bring in reseller after reseller (just naming them different) would just raise the price to no avail.

I liked the suggestion to ship some of the goods directly for China to Europe and assemble them here, then shipping to European customers. This would for sure raise my Px with them again and helps them (GMT) not to pay half the shipping to their Px customers.
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Alphawolf wrote:
suicidepuppet wrote:


... and without hard numbers I would say that North America is the majority of their business. Canada proves to be a problem but that has been going on for years. A small distribution center near the border where another on the other side of the border would burn $10 worth of gas to drive and then ship out from the Canadian side solves that mess.



Just for your information:

Washington's War: 500 copies German + English copies
White Star Rising German ed.: 300 - 500 copies (don't have the exact numbers here)
Steel Wolves: 500 copies German edition plus English copies
Virgin Queen: 500 copies German Edition plus English copies

Not to speak about German Editions of Napoleonic Wars, Twilight Struggle, Dominant Species, Path of Glory aso.

I would suggest that given a typical GMT game we'll see at least 40 % of the game shipped to Europe and Asia. You might be right with your "mostly American" assumption given smaller obscure companies or 1-man-shows (it is far expensive to buy L2 Design Games over here compared to GMT / MMP f. ex. with a big lack in availability).

The distribution center - as suggested by others too - would work for Europe if some distributors are willing to work together - meaning that they use the same center. I agree with you that if you bring in reseller after reseller (just naming them different) would just raise the price to no avail.

I liked the suggestion to ship some of the goods directly for China to Europe and assemble them here, then shipping to European customers. This would for sure raise my Px with them again and helps them (GMT) not to pay half the shipping to their Px customers.


You misunderstand me man. I'm not saying that GMT doesn't have customers around the world. Hell, I turned a female Italian friend onto Red Winter and her and her husband love it.

I'm saying that they are going to have to concentrate more perhaps on titles they know will be pre-ordered in N. America and then figure out what to do about the rest of the market.

See, the problem is that the P500 system is how it gets made. No numbers = no game. For anybody. Unless they decide to open a European branch then they can expect less pre-orders from that part of the world and thus have to appeal to a market that will pre-order. That's what I'm referring to.

As for smaller companies it is harder for them because they become limited to what they can produce and will likely have to forgo orders from the International market unless a distributor picks them up which isn't likely.

We all know how aftermarket works and that is easy to resolve. It's the people who are going to order directly from the company in the form of the pre-order that is their meat and potatoes. Without it their system falls apart.
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suicidepuppet wrote:

I'm saying that they are going to have to concentrate more perhaps on titles they know will be pre-ordered in N. America and then figure out what to do about the rest of the market.

See, the problem is that the P500 system is how it gets made. No numbers = no game. For anybody. Unless they decide to open a European branch then they can expect less pre-orders from that part of the world and thus have to appeal to a market that will pre-order. That's what I'm referring to.

As for smaller companies it is harder for them because they become limited to what they can produce and will likely have to forgo orders from the International market unless a distributor picks them up which isn't likely.

We all know how aftermarket works and that is easy to resolve. It's the people who are going to order directly from the company in the form of the pre-order that is their meat and potatoes. Without it their system falls apart.


Yes, I certainly have misunderstood you. And I agree with what you said.

Px is the liveblood for these companies and loosing the European Market since you don't want to Px a 50 $ game and paing 50 $ shipping can be harmful. But especially with GMT I'm sure they are clever enough to find a way around w/o paying even more postage for the direct orders at their webstore.

I Px-ed a lot of games in the States but stopped after Game + tax + customs cost me more then buying the game at my FLGS (which thru this gets my support). So nowadays I send him my Px - list and when the game becomes available and he orders in the States I get my game. Sadly these pre-orders don't count to the ones at the various companies.

What it might affect is the tendency to go for hardbound - maps. This will definitely raise the costs and I wonder if we see more games with an option "hardbound / paper" as VPG is doing.

Thanks for your reply to make things clearer.
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How about asking companies to bundle your purchases and them send them out twice a year? Maybe pay a (small) fee to them for storing the games?

I noticed that Clash of Arms has a very small increase for games send out to Canada...
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As things go now, it may soon become cheaper to go on holiday to the US once a year and buy our games.
Mind you it would mean travel by boat as airline would never allow for that much hand lugage.
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sagitar wrote:
Hm, seems like the mayans predicted the end of the gaming world, and were just off by a month.


Not the end, but it's added incentive for the transition to e-wargames, which have no shipping costs. Just buy the Vassal files and you'll be ready to roll. Plus think of all the closet space you'll save.

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Thank god I have as many paper and cardboard wargames as I could ever want to play for the rest of my lifetime.
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The Grinch wrote:
sagitar wrote:
Hm, seems like the mayans predicted the end of the gaming world, and were just off by a month.


Not the end, but it's added incentive for the transition to e-wargames, which have no shipping costs. Just buy the Vassal files and you'll be ready to roll. Plus think of all the closet space you'll save.



Well, I dumped videogames for paper so not interested in that, Vassal is a valuable tool but would not pass for business. It would have to have all kinds of DRM up the butt and be a horrible experience. I don't plan on having to buy a new $2000 computer every six months and deal with something like Steam to play a 2-D game. Pass.
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Just noticed this topic. Thank you to Peter for pointing people to the thread on the MMP forum!

As has been pointed out, the increases will probably hit Canada to a lesser degree than overseas nations, but it does still affect those customers. If you have specific questions regarding your existing preorder, I recommend contacting the MMP office directly:
Voice: +1 410 729 3334
Fax: +1 410 729 1312
Email: problems@multimanpublishing.com
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TomW731 wrote:
Thank god I have as many paper and cardboard wargames as I could ever want to play for the rest of my lifetime.


I have four things in my favor...I live in country, I don't use USPS EVER and have 2 online shops that cover my needs.

If they don't have to ditch or increase prices on the non-USPS shipping I'm set. Worst case scenario I'm thinking of re-opening my shop, online of course, and might be able to help out in the long run (I miss being in the customer service end...love those smiles...guess I'll have to settle for smileys
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I'm curious...how much does it cost to mail an item like these in Canada and what kind of time frame does it involve?

When I was selling on eBay it would take months sometimes for someone to receive an item I mailed out from the states. I still don't get that.
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red black wrote:
So this post is incorrect? 50% increase to Canada, 25% increase elsewhere.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11190725#11190725


I suppose it depends on whether you're talking relative or absolute, as well as what weight and service you're talking about — first class, priority, flat-rate, &c. The quick numbers I ran, as well as those quoted here, seemed to indicate that some Canada will see less of an impact. But I very well may have taken non-representative samples.
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The Grinch wrote:
sagitar wrote:
Hm, seems like the mayans predicted the end of the gaming world, and were just off by a month.


Not the end, but it's added incentive for the transition to e-wargames, which have no shipping costs. Just buy the Vassal files and you'll be ready to roll. Plus think of all the closet space you'll save.



I'm probably funny that way, but I don't think virtual cames can ever replace boardgames.
I love to actually stare at a board and physically move things around.
Staringa at a screen, for me, soon gets boring.

by the way what's this toy called? {and I don't mean the girl }
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sagitar wrote:
The Grinch wrote:
sagitar wrote:
Hm, seems like the mayans predicted the end of the gaming world, and were just off by a month.


Not the end, but it's added incentive for the transition to e-wargames, which have no shipping costs. Just buy the Vassal files and you'll be ready to roll. Plus think of all the closet space you'll save.



I'm probably funny that way, but I don't think virtual cames can ever replace boardgames.
I love to actually stare at a board and physically move things around.
Staringa at a screen, for me, soon gets boring.

by the way what's this toy called? {and I don't mean the girl }

Photoshop?
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Rob Ryan wrote:

Photoshop?


It sure looks like supersized iphone...
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my first guess was that it's some kind of giant I pad.

I think we can rule out laptops.
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