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Subject: Snare! - worth it or not? rss

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Steven Tu
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I've been really struggling between two cards that I'd like to include in my Jintrappi deck. The idea is to use the core identity, and try to do as much damage as possible, if a flatline happens, great, but I don't really count on it. Cos let's face it, it's not really a consistent strategy

So the two cards:
3 x Neural EMP
or
3 x Snare!

Stockpiling 3 Neural EMPs in hand can result in a possible flatline from a stolen Fetal AI, a scored agenda, and one or two EMPs (or a variety of other interesting situations), in a planets-aligned-to-make-it-possible kinda way.

Having 3 Snare!s... Well each hit is 4 cost (5 if you count draw), so you gotta hold that much money. Then they lose 3 cards, 2 creds and one click. Essentially 6. If you ever play it for a bluff (I know people say to keep in hand, but sometimes you need to change it up), it's 6 (+1 click for draw +1 click for installing) for 6.

It's not really the most efficient card ever... But it does give you random chances to remove key threats from runner's hand... If they were stupid enough to run with key breakers, for example.

So I'm really wondering. Which is better? My influences are maxxed, so it's in Jinteki where I must seek. So...?
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Nate K
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I'm going to have to go with Snare! on this one. It's a lot more damage wrapped up in a single card. Flatlining with Neural EMP is certainly possible, but much more difficult, I feel, as it has to be combined with multiple other cards to get the job done.
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Wesley Austin Kinslow
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Snare all the way - it can trigger off R&D, It can "protect" your hand from the runner (if they access it and you pay four then they have to spend a turn drawing back up and removing the tag potentially), you can bluff a money asset or Braintrust with no protection with it.

Snare is a no brainer 3 of for me in just about any Jinteki - but just to clarify: Is this Replicating Perfection or Personal Evolution?

...Oh, also, Neural EMP is just bad. I'd suggest using Data Mine over it - same bang for your buck while costing just the install click. Think of it as a Neural EMP that you get during a run that can give you a win with a Snare or a Fetal AI trigger during access. If you do use Data Mine don't count it as actual Ice for the deck... it isn't really Ice it is a frontloaded Neural EMP.
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Wabi Sabi Will

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Snare hands down.
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Ian Toltz
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Snare.

Neural EMP is awful.
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Steven Tu
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I'm running personal evolution - the new one is just not right for my deck. It's interested in building towers AND sideways, not waste all the influence on ice that can go in front of centrals.

Which makes me feel that if I had a precision strike tool I may be able to turn those 1 or 2 points of agenda damage, coupled with some other stuff, into damage. The runner loading up on 8 cards and running down a 4 token junebug is also within possibility (to get rid of it to disable tricks of light), which would make just one emp worth it's existence...

Man I used to love snare, but it just is so expected that people just load up and heal up after. And 4 creds is quite a lot for my poor broke ass jinteki...

It's such a toss up, yes snare is a much bigger hit, but it can't kill. Emps are silly little pings but they have a possibility of killing... ARRGH.
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Andrew B
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Just because it is expected does not make it any less potent.

The fact that you'll have players drawing cards just to be safe from a Snare! is absolutely awesome, you force them to loose clicks. It is really unlikely that Neural EMPs will actually get to do all that much.
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Bart Rachemoss
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Tuism wrote:
Man I used to love snare, but it just is so expected that people just load up and heal up after. And 4 creds is quite a lot for my poor broke ass jinteki...

If people are defending against Snare! then play the meta and go with Neural EMP for a while. You are already getting half the benefit from Snare! without taking up any card slots. When they stop preparing for Snare! then switch back.
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Wesley Chan
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wedgeex wrote:

...Oh, also, Neural EMP is just bad. I'd suggest using Data Mine over it - same bang for your buck while costing just the install click. Think of it as a Neural EMP that you get during a run that can give you a win with a Snare or a Fetal AI trigger during access. If you do use Data Mine don't count it as actual Ice for the deck... it isn't really Ice it is a frontloaded Neural EMP.

I feel like this is completely reversed. Data Mine is just bad, and I would suggest Neural EMP over it. You can't control when the runner runs into Data Mine. Neural EMP can be used for precision flatlines. If the runner is smart, he will jack out after getting hit by it if he no longer has the buffer against Fetal AI or Snare.
It also costs more than 'just the install click', because it will almost never be the only ice on your server. If it is, then the runner has absolutely no reason to continue the run after hitting it. They can just jack out, rebuffer, and run on the now iceless server.
And let's not forget that Data Mine can also be broken by AI breakers. And just because there's not any in your meta doesn't mean they don't show up in others, or even eventually. Neural EMP can only be defended once, by Net Shield. And there is definitely less Net Shield than there are Crypsis.

Unless you want to argue for Chumming the Data Mine. In which case, it'd take far more setup, considering you want some ice behind Data Mine, too.
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Steven Tu
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mrthefter wrote:
wedgeex wrote:

...Oh, also, Neural EMP is just bad. I'd suggest using Data Mine over it - same bang for your buck while costing just the install click. Think of it as a Neural EMP that you get during a run that can give you a win with a Snare or a Fetal AI trigger during access. If you do use Data Mine don't count it as actual Ice for the deck... it isn't really Ice it is a frontloaded Neural EMP.

I feel like this is completely reversed. Data Mine is just bad, and I would suggest Neural EMP over it. You can't control when the runner runs into Data Mine. Neural EMP can be used for precision flatlines. If the runner is smart, he will jack out after getting hit by it if he no longer has the buffer against Fetal AI or Snare.
It also costs more than 'just the install click', because it will almost never be the only ice on your server. If it is, then the runner has absolutely no reason to continue the run after hitting it. They can just jack out, rebuffer, and run on the now iceless server.
And let's not forget that Data Mine can also be broken by AI breakers. And just because there's not any in your meta doesn't mean they don't show up in others, or even eventually. Neural EMP can only be defended once, by Net Shield. And there is definitely less Net Shield than there are Crypsis.

Unless you want to argue for Chumming the Data Mine. In which case, it'd take far more setup, considering you want some ice behind Data Mine, too.


On that, I do agree. Data Mine is only really good for some cheap tricks which I think overall doesn't deserve space in my deck with, unless it's really pivotal. I don't think I need to trick people with Bank Jobs to run into it so they can't pull off the job (there was a ruling about that) THAT much

I guess then the next question is if I can find space for EMP AND Snare... Does make the chance to get a precision hit that much better.
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Brian
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The greatest thing about Fetal AI is that it's like running three extra snares. Gotta go with Snare.
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Wabi Sabi Will

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I just killed someone with a Snare over the weekend. He was running on R&D with a Maker's Eye (his 4th card), and the Snare killed him when he drew it because he only had 3 left.

Besides even that, Snare doesn't have to kill to be effective. With 4 cards trashed, you're bound to delete something he needs.
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Lou Lessing
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Snare's better, but I find Snare and EMP are good buddies. If you let them build up in HQ, HQ is very secure indeed.
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Justin
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photogasm wrote:
I just killed someone with a Snare over the weekend. He was running on R&D with a Maker's Eye (his 4th card), and the Snare killed him when he drew it because he only had 3 left.

Besides even that, Snare doesn't have to kill to be effective. With 4 cards trashed, you're bound to delete something he needs.

Snare does 3 net damage, not 4.
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Wabi Sabi Will

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astroglide wrote:
photogasm wrote:
I just killed someone with a Snare over the weekend. He was running on R&D with a Maker's Eye (his 4th card), and the Snare killed him when he drew it because he only had 3 left.

Besides even that, Snare doesn't have to kill to be effective. With 4 cards trashed, you're bound to delete something he needs.

Snare does 3 net damage, not 4.


Whatever, you know what I meant.
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Justin
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photogasm wrote:
Whatever, you know what I meant.

Since you specifically stated "his 4th card," "only had 3 left," and "4 cards trashed," I thought you (and your friend) might have misread the card. Sorry for trying to help, I guess? whistle

Oh, and to answer the OP: Snare! Snare! Snare!
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Wabi Sabi Will

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astroglide wrote:
photogasm wrote:
Whatever, you know what I meant.

Since you specifically stated "his 4th card," "only had 3 left," and "4 cards trashed," I thought you (and your friend) might have misread the card. Sorry for trying to help, I guess? whistle

Oh, and to answer the OP: Snare! Snare! Snare!


How does it help after the fact? You were just correcting me.

In any event, no, I just remembered wrong. I got the 4 credit cost stuck in my head and that's what came out.

It doesn't matter.
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Mychal
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photogasm wrote:
astroglide wrote:
photogasm wrote:
Whatever, you know what I meant.

Since you specifically stated "his 4th card," "only had 3 left," and "4 cards trashed," I thought you (and your friend) might have misread the card. Sorry for trying to help, I guess? whistle

Oh, and to answer the OP: Snare! Snare! Snare!


How does it help after the fact? You were just correcting me.

In any event, no, I just remembered wrong. I got the 4 credit cost stuck in my head and that's what came out.

It doesn't matter.

It didn't seem like Justin was being malicious or rude when correcting you. I don't understand why you're being defensive.
Also, thumbing your own posts seems disingenuous, but maybe that's just me.
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Lou Lessing
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Yeah. I dunno why I think that's etiquette, exactly, but I do. Who thumbs their own posts?
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Mychal
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brisingre wrote:
Yeah. I dunno why I think that's etiquette, exactly, but I do. Who thumbs their own posts?

Yeah, seriously, who does that?
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Lou Lessing
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Skylar114 wrote:
brisingre wrote:
Yeah. I dunno why I think that's etiquette, exactly, but I do. Who thumbs their own posts?

Yeah, seriously, who does that?


:D
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Caleb Smay
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I gotta say that I feel 'Neural EMP' is a much better card. Maybe its because 'Snare!' has never worked for me and 'Neural EMP' has flatlined my opponents several times.

Having said that, I will further suggest that you forget Jinteki and and make a Hass-Bioroid deck. LOL! I kid!
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Ryan Angell
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you can include all the net damage stuff you want as long as you dont take out economy to include neural emp/snare/junebug and count data mine as an upgrade and not real ice.

a lot of the jinteki decks i see posted have cut out econ for traps or are light on the ice because they are counting data mine as ice.

i like data mine but im hoping jinteki gets a minelayer type card in the future that lets me either recycle them from archives or thin them from my deck.
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Steven Tu
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Skylar114 wrote:
photogasm wrote:
astroglide wrote:
photogasm wrote:
Whatever, you know what I meant.

Since you specifically stated "his 4th card," "only had 3 left," and "4 cards trashed," I thought you (and your friend) might have misread the card. Sorry for trying to help, I guess? whistle

Oh, and to answer the OP: Snare! Snare! Snare!


How does it help after the fact? You were just correcting me.

In any event, no, I just remembered wrong. I got the 4 credit cost stuck in my head and that's what came out.

It doesn't matter.

It didn't seem like Justin was being malicious or rude when correcting you. I don't understand why you're being defensive.
Also, thumbing your own posts seems disingenuous, but maybe that's just me.


Just by the way, if he had 3 cards, and you land a snare, he doesn't flatline. If you can do one more damage, sure.

We're just making sure you're playing it right, no offence intended.

And there's no reason why you shouldn't thumb all your own posts. Go for it

Oh I do have economy in Jinteki... In a roundabout way. Akitaro and Melange and "playing slow"... Those are my economy Has worked so far
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Joel Tamburo
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Keep in mind that only Crypsis and Wyrm (that I know of - I currently just have Core) can interact with Data Mine. So in most cases the Runner will suffer the damage.
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