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Subject: Ice Breaker w/ 1 Subtype vs. Ice with Multiple Subtypes? rss

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T S
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A bit of a noob question here...

For types of Ice like "Wall of Thorns" that has two subtypes, "Barrier" and "AP", can a Ice Breaker that only has the ability to interact with "Barrier" do so? Or does your Ice Breaker need to have all Subtypes listed? Or maybe you need to have an Ice Breaker available for each type, provided you haven't installed a "general" subtype breaking card. Make sense?

As a new player to this game, I really wish Fantasy Flight provided deeper rules and guidelines for the cards. Understanding all the subtext and intricacies of how these cards work and relate to one another is not easy. If one wasn't able to get information from good communities like boardgamegeek, one might easily give up. If anyone knows of a thorough card source, that would be amazing. All I've seen so far is sites that list the details of a card that I can read for myself on the actual card - useless.

Thanks!
 
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Ony Moose
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There are 4 main types of ice: Barrier, Code Gate, Sentry and Trap.

At the moment ICEbreakers either break all ice, or they break one of barrier/code gate/sentry.

You don't have to match all the types, any ice with a type Barrier can be broken by an icebreaker which says "break barrier subroutine" it doesn't matter if the ice has other types too.

If you look at Tinkering, this adds all three types to any ice you want for one turn, if you had to match all three this would make it a rather bad card!
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Benedetto Loffredo
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vfxtrev wrote:
For types of Ice like "Wall of Thorns" that has two subtypes, "Barrier" and "AP", can a Ice Breaker that only has the ability to interact with "Barrier" do so? Or does your Ice Breaker need to have all Subtypes listed? Or maybe you need to have an Ice Breaker available for each type, provided you haven't installed a "general" subtype breaking card. Make sense?


Rules, page 16:

Rules wrote:

Ice
Ice is defensive software the Corporation installs in front of
his servers to protect his valuable data. There are four main
subtypes that can appear on a piece of ice: sentry, barrier,
code gate, and trap. Ice also has separate abilities called
subroutines.

Icebreakers
Icebreakers are programs with the icebreaker subtype that
the Runner can use to overcome ice encountered during a run.
Each icebreaker has a strength, an install cost, and one or more
subtypes that reflect which kind of ice subroutine it is designed
to break.
The Runner uses icebreakers to interact with and break
subroutines on ice. An icebreaker can only interact with ice that
has equal or lower strength than the icebreaker.
In addition to this strength requirement, many icebreaker
abilities can only be used to break subroutines on particular
subtypes of ice. For example, an icebreaker that has the ability
“1credit: Break barrier subroutine” can only use this ability to break
subroutines on a piece of ice with the barrier subtype. It does
not matter if the ice has additional subtypes, provided it has any
subtypes referred to by the icebreaker’s ability. If an ability does
not restrict itself to a subtype (i.e., “Break ice subroutine”), it
can be used against any piece of ice.


This should answer your question
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Andri Erlingsson
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There are currently only three subtypes of Ice that matter for icebreakers: Codegate, Sentry, and Barrier. Any other subtypes, such as AP, Tracer, Destroyer etc. are mainly there to add flavour and have no bearing on the game right now.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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vfxtrev wrote:
For types of Ice like "Wall of Thorns" that has two subtypes, "Barrier" and "AP", can a Ice Breaker that only has the ability to interact with "Barrier" do so?


Yes.
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Henric Fröberg
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Yes, if your icebreaker can interact with, for example, barriers, that is enough. You don't have to care about the other subtypes.
 
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Benedetto Loffredo
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vfxtrev wrote:
If anyone knows of a thorough card source, that would be amazing


Maybe this file (made by me) can be useful for you: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/83809/cardbycard-unoff...
 
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brett wagner
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You only need to have one 'match'.

As an aside the AP subtype hasn't been exploited by the game yet, most think it means 'Anti Personal' ( or maybe Anti Program) there isn't an established breaker for an AP type ice, or any card that interacts with the AP subtype in any way.

A better example is the shaper card 'Tinkering', which reads:
Choose a piece of ice. That ice gains sentry, code gate, and barrier until the end of the turn.

This allows you to use any current icebreaker to break the affected piece of ICE.
 
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T S
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Sportacus wrote:
vfxtrev wrote:
For types of Ice like "Wall of Thorns" that has two subtypes, "Barrier" and "AP", can a Ice Breaker that only has the ability to interact with "Barrier" do so? Or does your Ice Breaker need to have all Subtypes listed? Or maybe you need to have an Ice Breaker available for each type, provided you haven't installed a "general" subtype breaking card. Make sense?


Rules, page 16:

Rules wrote:

Ice
Ice is defensive software the Corporation installs in front of
his servers to protect his valuable data. There are four main
subtypes that can appear on a piece of ice: sentry, barrier,
code gate, and trap. Ice also has separate abilities called
subroutines.

Icebreakers
Icebreakers are programs with the icebreaker subtype that
the Runner can use to overcome ice encountered during a run.
Each icebreaker has a strength, an install cost, and one or more
subtypes that reflect which kind of ice subroutine it is designed
to break.
The Runner uses icebreakers to interact with and break
subroutines on ice. An icebreaker can only interact with ice that
has equal or lower strength than the icebreaker.
In addition to this strength requirement, many icebreaker
abilities can only be used to break subroutines on particular
subtypes of ice. For example, an icebreaker that has the ability
“1credit: Break barrier subroutine” can only use this ability to break
subroutines on a piece of ice with the barrier subtype. It does
not matter if the ice has additional subtypes, provided it has any
subtypes referred to by the icebreaker’s ability. If an ability does
not restrict itself to a subtype (i.e., “Break ice subroutine”), it
can be used against any piece of ice.


This should answer your question


Ah, brilliant! Some how I missed that page while trying to figure this out during a game. Thank you!

And thank you for everyone else's thorough explanations.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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This isn't just a Netrunner thing. This makes sense, logically. If you have something that affects barriers, then it doesn't matter what kind of barrier it is...you can just assume it's all barriers, unless something tells you otherwise.

If you have a Magic card that gives dragons +1/+1, it will give that bonus to Elder Dragon Legends, Zombie Dragons, Vampire Dragons, Fairy Dragons...as well as regular, garden-variety dragons.

BTW, if you haven't read through the entire rulebook yet, I highly recommend it. It will clear up a lot for you.
 
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Bier Fuizl
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We might see something like this in the future:

http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/flak/

 
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Steven Tu
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Bierfuizl wrote:
We might see something like this in the future:

http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/flak/



Interesting, I guess it's about the same principle as E3 for bioroids, flak for AP ice. I wonder how many subsets are viably used.,,?
 
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Yan
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If you needed to match all sub types of an ICE to be able to break it, tinkering would be an awful card.
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Remy Gibson
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I do like the flavor in all of the different ice subtypes, though.

AP - causes damage to runner
Bioroid - runner can always spend 1 click to break subroutines
Deflector - bumps runner backward/away from the server
Destroyer - allows corp to remove a card from runner's tableau
Observer - allows corp to perform an optional action when encountered*
Psi - requires corp to get inside the runner's head
Tracer - initiates a trace

*though I don't know why Hunter has this designation; it doesn't seem to fit

So the subtypes serve as a sort of shorthand for the kind of thing the ice does.
 
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Adrian Breuch
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Aweberman wrote:

Observer - allows corp to perform an optional action when encountered*

though I don't know why Hunter has this designation; it doesn't seem to fit


I thought Observer ICE is ICE that can tag the runner...
But then i realised that Shadwo is just a 'Sentry, Tracer' that can tag the runner but is not an Observer...

If Observer means ICE with a "When the runner encounters..." Ability, then why is Hunter an Observer but not Tollbooth?

Does anybody have a definition that's fit?


Does AP stands for Anti-Personnel?
 
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Caleb Smay
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Zyankalium wrote:
I thought Observer ICE is ICE that can tag the runner...
But then i realised that Shadwo is just a 'Sentry, Tracer' that can tag the runner but is not an Observer...

If Observer means ICE with a "When the runner encounters..." Ability, then why is Hunter an Observer but not Tollbooth?

Does anybody have a definition that's fit?


Does AP stands for Anti-Personnel?


I am trying to go from memory since I don't have any of the cards in front of me, but doesn't 'Tracer' ICE tag the runner if the trace is successful and 'Observer' ICE do some crazy thing like trash programs if the trace is successful?
 
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Steven Tu
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With the exception of Hunter, Observers all do something at encounter which the runner can't break (Matrix Analyser and Data Raven). It sounds right that they're watching and react to the runner's movement. Hunter fits that except he's just cheapass.

Tracer, well, traces. It's completely obvious The Observers above are all also Tracers.
 
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Caleb Smay
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And that's just great! This is going to be bothering me until I can get home from work and look at every piece of ICE and figure out what all the subtypes means and how they reflect gameplay.

Thank you very much! LOL!
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Zyankalium wrote:
Aweberman wrote:

Observer - allows corp to perform an optional action when encountered*

though I don't know why Hunter has this designation; it doesn't seem to fit


I thought Observer ICE is ICE that can tag the runner...
But then i realised that Shadwo is just a 'Sentry, Tracer' that can tag the runner but is not an Observer...

If Observer means ICE with a "When the runner encounters..." Ability, then why is Hunter an Observer but not Tollbooth?

Does anybody have a definition that's fit?


There are 3 Observers, and they all give tags: Data Raven, Hunter, Matrix Analyzer.

There are 6 ICE that give runners tags: The 3 Observers, Draco, Ichi 1.0, and Shadow. These are all tracers.

There are 8 ICE that are tracers: The 6 that give tags, Caduceus, and Sherlock 1.0.

Observer is either a meaningless subtype, or Hunter is mistyped (maybe it got nerfed?).
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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RhinoBarbarian wrote:
And that's just great! This is going to be bothering me until I can get home from work and look at every piece of ICE and figure out what all the subtypes means and how they reflect gameplay.


http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrun...
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Caleb Smay
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etherial wrote:
RhinoBarbarian wrote:
And that's just great! This is going to be bothering me until I can get home from work and look at every piece of ICE and figure out what all the subtypes means and how they reflect gameplay.


http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrun...


Again: Thank you very much!
 
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