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B-17: Queen of the Skies» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on cumulative effects of combat damage rss

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Andrew Borgelin
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I have an interesting ongoing situation that I have not come up with before. One of my current planes received damage in the target zone which meant that I was unable to drop bombs on the target. Shortly afterward during a further wave attack I lost engine number 3 which feathered.

Reading the rules concerning one engine out it states that if in target zone I can drop bombs before taking into account the loss of the engine and potential out of formation penalties. Now I can't drop the bombs because of prior damage therefore I must fall out of formation due to carrying the bomb load back and only having three engines. Thus I face a two turns per zone penalty.

In addition to this, again due to previous damage in this zone, my navigation equipment has been knocked out. While I am in formation this causes me no real problem however, now I am out of formation due to weight and lack of engine number 3, I have the additional problem of not being able to navigate and again I must therefore spend two turns in each zone.

The 64 million dollar question is, are these penalties cumulative, do I have to spend four turns in each zone from now on in or is it a maximum of two turns no matter what?

What do you guys think, have you encountered a similar problem before?

Look forward to your view on this.

Cheers

Andy B
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Jim Rose
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No more than two turns per zone is your penalty. Because your weighted down and minus one engine, any additional time needed for your navigator to keep recalculating a course home could be done in the longer time it takes to traverse each zone.

Still, you've got quite a battle ahead...

Good luck!
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Andrew Borgelin
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Thanks for that Jim, I sort of thought and I must admit hoped that this would be the case....the prospect of taking four turns in each zone would be horrific!! I'm afraid this plane is likely to be a casualty of war as I have five zones to travel back through and it feels like a very long way home. Oh well we'll just have to see how the dice fall and hope!

Cheers for the super fast response.

Andy B
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Alan Barrett
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If all else fails, try the old 'wheels down' trick....??
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John Kovacs
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Hatricvs wrote:
Thanks for that Jim, I sort of thought and I must admit hoped that this would be the case....the prospect of taking four turns in each zone would be horrific!! I'm afraid this plane is likely to be a casualty of war as I have five zones to travel back through and it feels like a very long way home. Oh well we'll just have to see how the dice fall and hope!

Cheers for the super fast response.

Andy B


Don't forget that once you're under the friendly fighter umbrella again you do get some help.
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John Kovacs
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StinkyHarry wrote:
If all else fails, try the old 'wheels down' trick....??


Won't help much if you're flying over the North Sea or the Channel.
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Frank
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Hatricvs wrote:
In addition to this, again due to previous damage in this zone, my navigation equipment has been knocked out. While I am in formation this causes me no real problem however, now I am out of formation due to weight and lack of engine number 3, I have the additional problem of not being able to navigate and again I must therefore spend two turns in each zone.

With no other slowing damage, if you're out of formation with either no navigator or no navigation equipment, you must only spent 2 turns in odd-numbered zone entered, not in each zone. See note b) under table P-1.
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Jim P
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Andrew,
This is listed on the back of the Orange card in the Errata's not in the rules. See #17...



Good luck getting your plane back!

I once played it as I needed 4 turns per zone.... not pretty, not at all.

Jim P cool
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Andrew Borgelin
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Thanks all for the added information. Hope to fly the rest of the mission very soon and will hopefully get my plane out of dodge. I am actually flying twelve planes at the same time as a series of three four plane sections. It takes a long time to do all the work but, it certainly is good fun to do and gives you even greater perspective flying as a group. The story unfolds as each plane takes its turn doing the run. Having a plane like the one mentioned above which is having all the trouble certainly brings it all home when you see the other formations flying off into the distance whilst the lame duck hobbles its weary way home up against all odds. Really good fun!

Thanks again guys for the info....it certainly saved me flying my plane through a whole lot more hurt....now whether I survive is another story all together!

Cheers

Andy B
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Andrew,

I wanted to go back to the beginning of your situation. You said that you received damage over the target zone that prevented from dropping bombs. Was the doors buckled closed?
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Andrew Borgelin
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Hi, yep you are spot on. I received damage to the bomb bay doors which meant that the doors were inoperable and no bomb drop could occur. Due to this I believe that I am unable to drop the bombs normally nor jettison the bombs. I guess I am stuck with them and will have to make my way back home with the dangerous cargo!

Cheers

Andy B
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Alan Barrett
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And all that extra weight! And landing.....
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John Kovacs
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Hatricvs wrote:
Hi, yep you are spot on. I received damage to the bomb bay doors which meant that the doors were inoperable and no bomb drop could occur. Due to this I believe that I am unable to drop the bombs normally nor jettison the bombs. I guess I am stuck with them and will have to make my way back home with the dangerous cargo!

Cheers

Andy B


What, your engineer doesn't have any hack saws?
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Orcinius Orca
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You misunderstand the term 'wheels down'. American bombers would lower their wheels as a sign that they are surrendering. Then the plane would be escorted by German fighters to the nearest airbase or allow the crew time to bail out. Sometimes the 'wheels down' was used to lure a German fighter into close range where upon it would be shot down by the bomber's gunners.
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Jim P
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Orcinius Orca1 wrote:
You misunderstand the term 'wheels down'. American bombers would lower their wheels as a sign that they are surrendering. Then the plane would be escorted by German fighters to the nearest airbase or allow the crew time to bail out. Sometimes the 'wheels down' was used to lure a German fighter into close range where upon it would be shot down by the bomber's gunners.


I have only heard of one instance where this happened on the Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission of August 17 1943, when a 100th BG plane lowered its wheels and then shot down the enemy fighters that tucked in to escort them to a German base. This is where the "Bloody Hundredth" came from as the crews of the 100th BG felt after this that the Luftwaffe had it out for any plane carrying the "Square D" on the tail.

This tactic, if used on a regular basis, would quickly back fire for the bomber crews cause the Germans would have ignored it and shoot down any crew that tried to surrender this way in the future.

But it was never known why this crew of the 100th BG did it, as there was no communication prior to the event and the Germans quickly dispatched the offending Fortress after shooting down the enemy fighter.

Jim P cool
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Jeromy Fisher
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Ten five hundred pound bombs, lets see, thats two and a half ton. I would have my Bombardier go back and place the safty pins back in place and then trigger the bomb release. those aluminum doors will open right up like my prom date did back in the states. Might give the ball gunner a heads up to look out for doors shreding off the plane. See you tails down!

1st Lt. Max Swagger
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Mark Aasted
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jasta6 wrote:
Andrew,
This is listed on the back of the Orange card in the Errata's not in the rules. See #17...



Good luck getting your plane back!

I once played it as I needed 4 turns per zone.... not pretty, not at all.

Jim P cool


I wish my copy had the errata on this card, it might have saved me a few aircraft over the years. I guess that's what I get for rushing out and buying it as soon as it came out way back in the good old days of my youth.
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