Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin» Forums » Rules

Subject: clarification on how to take losses in this situation.. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Folksman
United Kingdom
liverpool
Merseyside
flag msg tools
badge
Keep Crom and crush you enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, Soviets just attacked with 1 x SW Mech Front + 1 x Inf Front both at half strength

Scored LF 5

Axis defends with 1 x Ger Army 3-3-3(half strength) + 1 x Ro Army 2-2-3(full strength)

scored LF 5

How does the axis take losses here.

Does he get a choice of

take 3 LF on ger LCU replace it with SCU and eliminate SCU (for total of 5)

or eliminate RO LCU replace with RO scu 1-1-3 from reserves and flip it (for total of 5)

and for soviets

SW front took LF3 as it must take first step loss when attacking and is eliminated due to no soviet mech in replacements

2 left over isnt enough to flip 2-3-3 LCU so are lost.

Am I right in my logic here?

Thanks for any input.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It sounds correct. Let me add that I think the losses are inflicted as if the appropriate unit were available in the reserve box. So in my mind that means that LF 5 vs the SW front is applied like:

3 remove unit.
1 flip hypothetical reserve unit
1 eliminate hypothetical reserve unit

So there wouldn't really be two left over. There would be zero.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Folksman
United Kingdom
liverpool
Merseyside
flag msg tools
badge
Keep Crom and crush you enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah thanks, that makes sense
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Schmittgens
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DaveyF wrote:
SW front took LF3 as it must take first step loss when attacking and is eliminated due to no soviet mech in replacements

Am I right in my logic here?

Thanks for any input.


I know I'm late to the party, but I believe you are not right.

There are no mech replacements for any Soviet Fronts. Whenever you remove a front, it is replaced by an infantry (2-1-3) army.

This is stated in section 11.31 - Soviet 5-3-4 and 3-3-3 Fronts are both replaced by a regular infantry Army.

The only mechanized SCUs are the six Tank Armies which are placed via the event on Card 4.

However, in your example, the result is the same. The SW Front is removed (for 3 LF), replaced with a 2-1-3 SCU, which is flipped (for 4 LF) and removed (for 5 LF).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I second what Greg said. Somehow I missed that on my first read.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Attila Felsen
United States
Encinitas
California
flag msg tools
mb
What if you have full strength Soviet SW Front and reduced Soviet Infantry Front in an attack and the defender rolls 4 LFs? If the SW Front takes the first 3 LFs as required by the rules, the remaining 1 LF cannot be taken; however, if the reduced Infantry Front takes the loss, it is replaced by a SCU that can take the additional 1 LF.

I believe the rule stating SW Front must take first loss should take priority; however, what if the SW Front attacks with only a SCU and the loss factor is 2 or less? Does that mean the SCU is "protected" by the SW Front, and no losses are taken?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
attilahfelsen wrote:
What if you have full strength Soviet SW Front and reduced Soviet Infantry Front in an attack and the defender rolls 4 LFs? If the SW Front takes the first 3 LFs as required by the rules, the remaining 1 LF cannot be taken; however, if the reduced Infantry Front takes the loss, it is replaced by a SCU that can take the additional 1 LF.


As written the SW Front would take the 3 Loss Factors, the other 1 Loss Factor would be wasted.

Quote:
I believe the rule stating SW Front must take first loss should take priority; however, what if the SW Front attacks with only a SCU and the loss factor is 2 or less? Does that mean the SCU is "protected" by the SW Front, and no losses are taken?


That is how I understand the rule as written. The 2 Loss Factors would be wasted.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Eliason
United States
Iowa
flag msg tools
mb
As I understand it, taking the full loss number is the highest priority. If there are several ways of doing so, then the SW front must take a loss if possible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeliason wrote:
As I understand it, taking the full loss number is the highest priority. If there are several ways of doing so, then the SW front must take a loss if possible.


I feel the reverse of this is true.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dampenon Fabien
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Rookies talk about strategy, Grognards about Logistics
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
11.32 SOVIET SOUTHWEST FRONT: The Soviet Southwest
Front non-replaceable mechanized unit must take the first step
loss (if any) when attacking (only).

In Cusade and Revolutions (same engine in Spanish War), it seems these kind of special losses have been precised to be secondary after completing Loss Number (cf my last paragraph, rules from CR). It seems it's not true in BtB...

IMPORTANT: This requirement (fulfilling Loss Number) supersedes any requirement
for “first loss” due to using Army of Africa units (see 17.6.5) or
armor units (see 16.6.2).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.