Graham Martin
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Just want to confirm we are doing this correctly:

Situation: OL declares that a Master Merriod will use Flail to attacks two heroes, one of which is wearing a Heavy Cloak.

Merriod: http://www.descentinthedark.com/2nd/tag/merriod/
Heavy Cloak: http://www.descentinthedark.com/2nd/tag/heavy-cloak/

I assume that this resolved as follows:

1) Merriod rolls attack dice
2) Modifiers to attack dice may be used. E.g., re-roll a die, etc..
3) First hero rolls defense dice
4) Second hero rolls defense dice
5) All post-roll modifiers may be played. While OL cards can be played such as adding surges, etc., the issue that is germane to this post is that this is the time when the Heavy Cloak is used.
6) OL spends surges.
7) The damage is resolved for each of the two targeted attacks.

In our game, the Merriod attacked two heroes, one of which is a thief wearing a Heavy Cloak. It rolled its dice and got an X for a miss. OL played Dark Fortune (http://www.descentinthedark.com/2nd/tag/dark-fortune/) and re-rolled the blue die, resulting in 3 hearts and one surge. OL played Dark Might (http://www.descentinthedark.com/2nd/tag/dark-might/) thus adding one surge for a total of 3 hearts ad two surges.

The defending players rolled their dice. The thief then exhausts his Heavy Cloak o cancel one surge.

Question: My reading of the rule is that this cancels the surge for both targets, not just the thief wearing the cloak. (This is because there is ONE attack that they have to deal with, not two separate attacks.) As such, both heroes has to deal with just one surge plus 3 hearts and the OL must decide whether to use the surge on immobilize or +2 hearts. However, since everyone has rolled their dice already, and since immobilize only works against a target who takes at least one damage, the OL can make an informed decision re which way to spend the surge since he has seen all the dice.

Is this sequence correct? Also, is my interpretation that the Heavy Cloak cancels the surge for both heroes, not just the thief, correct?
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E.M. Proc
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That's an interesting situation...

But thinking about it, I would probably agree with your interpretation... It's one attack targeting two heroes, and the cloak cancels a surge on the attack, so it actually cancels the surge for both heroes...

Definitely raises my appreciation of the cloak...
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Dominic Lauke
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I think the both attacks must evaluate seperatly, like it is dictated for the Flail effect. The thief can cancel 1 surge, but only for his defence. The other hero has to take the full Meriod attack.
So you have to calculate the attack strenght twice. imo ...


 
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Rom Brown
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The Heavy Cloak would negate the surge vs all targets;
Working similarly to the Knight "Defend", mentioned in the Q/A from JK below...

Q. When monster uses skills like Flail, Leap, which target number of heroes, one of which is Knight, can Knight use Defend? What will the effect be? The figure cannot be attacked by the same attack twice, so does it cancel out one of targets?

A. Yes, the Knight may use Defend against attacks that target multiple heroes. This is a fine distinction of nomenclature between "targeting" and "targeted by". Technically, the (let's say merriod) merriod is targeting 2 different heroes, one of which is the Knight. The Knight uses defend to declare himself the target of the other attack as well, so both attacks affect him, and he rolls his defense dice once for each attack.

Justin Kemppainen
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Fantasy Flight Games
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So the cloak negates a surge after it's been used for a surge ability? So the OL cannot use the ability even if he has more surges?
 
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Tom H
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johhak wrote:
So the cloak negates a surge after it's been used for a surge ability? So the OL cannot use the ability even if he has more surges?

I don't see why. Is it because FFG says there is a "fine distinction of nomenclature between 'targeting' and 'targeted by'."? I don't think FFG uses "fine distinctions" in a consistent methodical manner.

After a surge is spent to buy an effect even if you did cancel the surge the effect is already bought and would not be cancelled.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Well, minksling's post wanted only to assure us that the surge will be removed from both attacks.

Surges are spent after dice are rolled.
Cloak can be activated after dice are rolled.
That means that it pretty much comes down to this:
Quote:
Timing conflicts may arise when two or more players
wish to use an ability with the same triggering
condition. In these situations, the current player (the
player who is currently taking his turn) decides the
order in which the abilities are resolved.


Usually Merriod will do flail during OL's turn, so usually OL will decide the order in which those 2 happen. Any reasonable OL at this point will say the cloak activates first, and then OL is free to spend remaining surges on any of surge abilities available.


Wrong.

This:

Quote:

Combat is performed by resolving the following steps in order. Each step
is detailed in a later section (see “Combat” on page 12):
1. Declare Weapon and Target: The attacking player chooses which
of his equipped weapons to use for this attack and declares the target
of the attack (a space containing an enemy figure). The player then
compiles his attack dice into a pool.
2. Roll Dice: The attacking player rolls his dice pool while the defending
player rolls all necessary defense dice. If an attack affects multiple
figures, each figure rolls its defense dice separately.
3. Check Range: When performing a Ranged attack, the attacking
player must roll enough range to reach the target.
4. Spend Surges: After rolling the dice, the attacking player may spend
any surge results to trigger special abilities.
5. Deal Damage: Any damage not canceled by defense dice or other
effects is applied to each affected figure.


Dice are rolled in 2. It's in 2 when hero can use cloak.

OL spends surges in 4. LONG after cloak was used.
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Rom Brown
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There are 5 Combat phases...

2. is Roll Dice.

4. is Spend Surges.

The Cloak takes effect during phase 2. after dice are rolled.

If the Merriod only rolled 1 surge, the Cloak would cancel it and it would not be available during phase 4.

If though, the Merriod rolled 2 (or more) surges, the Cloak would reduce them by 1 ...and any remaining could be spent during phase 4. on either extra damage and/or Immobilize - affecting both targets of the Flail attack.

Any damage / Immobilize would then be applied to these heroes, separately, having been reduced by the individual hero's defence totals rolled in phase 2.

... Rafal ninja edit ninja
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Yeah. My initial comment was while I was still in "Monday morning" phase. Then I drank sip of coffee and went all WRONG, IMMA NINJA.
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Graham Martin
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johhak wrote:
So the cloak negates a surge after it's been used for a surge ability? So the OL cannot use the ability even if he has more surges?


No. It takes away one surge at step 2 before it could even be spent. If he has more surges, he can still spend them when it comes time to spend them (in step 4 of combat.)
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