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Subject: Axis First Winter - Question rss

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Craig Mason
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Hi

Some help please regarding the Axis 1st Winter (which has just occurred in our current game)

Rule 32.0 states that from Dec41 - Mar 42 all Axis units (apart from Fins & Mtn troops) get 1 Malus - even when defending.

However rule 9.3 (Weather effects on Combat) states that in Snow weather all defending units get 1 Bonus.

Q. Does this mean that the 2 conditions cancel each other out (as per 7.7.6) so that the Axis defender would roll his normal amount of dice but with no bonus?

Makes a Soviet Winter counter offensive extremely difficult as in most cases Soviets will be getting out diced (as usual)

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks

Craig
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Emanuele Santandrea
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Thanks Craig,

this was a typo in the rule. It has been already corrected by Jan.

Snow: NO defender BONUS


Any question, just ask.

emanuele
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Craig Mason
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Thanks Emanuele

I must say very prompt reply - I am impressed.

Our game is roughly on historical lines at the moment (Jan 42) - but the Axis have taken hardly any casualties (some shocking dice rolls by me).

Should be quite interesting as to what happens now - could go either way.

Craig
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Emanuele Santandrea
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I have been out for 3 days in Bologna for BITE DAYS, but now I'm back and ready to support you quickly.

Did you get an AAR?
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Craig Mason
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Sorry

We haven't been doing an AAR - don't think either of us own a digital camera for a start (Technophobes!!)

However it is Jan 42 & the Axis are up to Leningrad, a couple of hexes from Moscow, have just taken Kharkov (got 2 of the Factories out) & are a couple of hexes from Rostov. They have sealed off & by passed the Crimean peninsula after getting a bloody nose trying to assualt the Bunkers. There has been some intense fighting around Murmansk as the Fins attempt to cut the lend Lease route, but the Soviets have just about held on.

In Dec 41 Soviets counter attacked outside Leningrad & forced the German Corps there to retreat (Axis took no losses though - 14 dice rolls by me & not 1 single 6!!)

2 Soviet counter attacks on the Moscow front were bloodily repulsed (not knowing the no bonus in snow thing - d'oh!!)

However a Soviet attack just North of Rostov decimated a Panzer Corps (3 hits) & has cut off several Corps around Stalino. However this force took some losses & is now ripe for a counterattack - especially as the large German Mountain Corps has been spotted in this area.

Its also worth noting that the VVS recorded its first success inflicting 3 hits on a German Fighter & winning our 1st air victory - orders of Lenin all round!!

Cheers

Craig

PS My opponent wanted to know why Artillery (o-step units) don't surrender if out of supply, but have to be finished off. Can see the reason for Para's & Marines but not Artillery?
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The Weather rule passage is part of the actual Errata:
- 9.3 Weather Effects on Combat: Rain: Blitzing is forbidden. Snow: Blitzing is forbidden. Delete "All defending Ground Combat Units get 1 Bonus."

See http://www.ventonuovo.net/downloads.htm for the complete Errata.
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Emanuele Santandrea
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stokeycraig wrote:
Sorry

We haven't been doing an AAR - don't think either of us own a digital camera for a start (Technophobes!!)

However it is Jan 42 & the Axis are up to Leningrad, a couple of hexes from Moscow, have just taken Kharkov (got 2 of the Factories out) & are a couple of hexes from Rostov. They have sealed off & by passed the Crimean peninsula after getting a bloody nose trying to assualt the Bunkers. There has been some intense fighting around Murmansk as the Fins attempt to cut the lend Lease route, but the Soviets have just about held on.

In Dec 41 Soviets counter attacked outside Leningrad & forced the German Corps there to retreat (Axis took no losses though - 14 dice rolls by me & not 1 single 6!!)

2 Soviet counter attacks on the Moscow front were bloodily repulsed (not knowing the no bonus in snow thing - d'oh!!)

However a Soviet attack just North of Rostov decimated a Panzer Corps (3 hits) & has cut off several Corps around Stalino. However this force took some losses & is now ripe for a counterattack - especially as the large German Mountain Corps has been spotted in this area.

Its also worth noting that the VVS recorded its first success inflicting 3 hits on a German Fighter & winning our 1st air victory - orders of Lenin all round!!

Cheers

Craig

PS My opponent wanted to know why Artillery (o-step units) don't surrender if out of supply, but have to be finished off. Can see the reason for Para's & Marines but not Artillery?


VERY VERY INTERESTING.

It seems you guys are already a great feel of the game... Are you expert or new to wargames?
I think it would be very interesting you could partecipate in the AAR contest, even without pics.

About artillery: it's a very long story... I understand that when playing the Axis in 1941 this is hard to be accepted, but there are some reasons behind this choice, first of all a sort of unpredictable event... that can suddenly break Axis plans...

We are currently work on the new 2.2 rules, in which we have added 10 clarifications/new rules.
I can anticipate that, in December, the Axis must remove the Hungarian Tankettes and the German Flieger division, Soviet partisans will be stronger and more effective on supply lanes, then Volksturm...

Please go ahead with your game.
I'm ansious to know how the new incoming Axis summer offensive will go.

emanuele
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Craig Mason
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Hi Emanuele

We have both been gaming for some 30 odd years (but I wouldn't call either of us experts)

We have played a large number of Board Games from all periods, our favourites are American Civil War & WWII, usually meeting twice a week & the odd Sunday (Family life allowing) We have also done a large amount of miniature gaming & have even hosted a couple of small War Gaming events here in Newquay (Arnhem & Stalingrad -using our own rules which are a derivative of the popular Spear Head system).

We both really enjoy this game as it is certainly a unique take on this subject. I think 42 will be decisive one way or the other. I will try to keep you updated.

Craig
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stokeycraig wrote:
Sorry
PS My opponent wanted to know why Artillery (o-step units) don't surrender if out of supply, but have to be finished off. Can see the reason for Para's & Marines but not Artillery?


I am not sure, but I think that the logical background of these units is as follows:
Support units are are special type of "units" (like an addition to the normal combat units), so the normal rules for step reducing and surrendering do not completely count for them as they are a more "abstract" part of the combat units (i.e., "the artillery of the M.D. Leningrad" or "HQ of all ground forces of the M.D. Leningrad"). For example, artillery and HQ units reduce themselves by acting and cannot attack/defend if embattled alone.
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stokeycraig wrote:
Hi Emanuele

We have both been gaming for some 30 odd years (but I wouldn't call either of us experts)

We have played a large number of Board Games from all periods, our favourites are American Civil War & WWII, usually meeting twice a week & the odd Sunday (Family life allowing) We have also done a large amount of miniature gaming & have even hosted a couple of small War Gaming events here in Newquay (Arnhem & Stalingrad -using our own rules which are a derivative of the popular Spear Head system).

We both really enjoy this game as it is certainly a unique take on this subject. I think 42 will be decisive one way or the other. I will try to keep you updated.

Craig


Well, that means you both are VERY expert! I think your skill level is a clear explanation of how easily you are managing the game.

The general BitE's idea is based on a long, deep and accurate historical research, needs many strategic/logistic evaluations, BUT needs very few, easy and intuitive rules.

I'm a very bad chess-player, but I like short rule-manuals.

I think your AAR would be very useful for everybody.

Please go ahead and keep us informed!

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Craig Mason
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OK will try to keep an account going. Got through 2 more turns last night with mixed fortunes.

JAN 42

Axis player (Grant) slightly pulled the lines back to be, on average, 2 hexes away from most Soviet troops (craftily realising that most Soviet troops only go 1 hex in Snow (Inf & Arty 3 MP's). Quite cowardly I thought! The Fins (with their Ski Troops) made an assault a couple of hexes south of Murmansk (still trying for that rail line) & owing to some fine dice rolling forced the 2 battered Soviet corps to retreat - still covering the Rail Line though. He then realised that he had advanced out of supply (oops) & his hard thought victory was all for naught as he would have to withdraw next turn anyway.
As predicted previously my battered forces to the NW of Rostov were counter attacked & were wiped out (only 4 steps were left).

The Russians spent most of the turn (slowly) moving forces up to the front line & re-arranging our precious Shock & Tank Armies to be in position for next turn. Tried a couple of blind attacks (no Air recce succesfull of course) in the woods to the west of Moscow & got stung - pulled back pretty quickly.
Made another big attack to the North of Rostov again with 2 Infantry Corps + Arty backed up by a fighter & bomber of the VVS.
The Luftwaffe responded & the Russians were promptly stuffed in the Air to Air combat with both units barely getting out with 1 step each.
Luftwaffe then ran into a wall of Flak (12 dice) & took 4 hits - they however get some hits of their own in before aborting away.
There then followed the most frustrating & futile battle in the history of the Red Army. Over several rounds of combat I threw some 36 dice (I counted them) & threw just ONE 6 - right at the end, meanwhile getting whittled down every turn. Arty was expended & 1 corps (with 1 step left) was all that limped home. Stalin will require a full report - in person!!!

By the end of the turn the front lines resembled France 1916, as the Axis are at pretty much full strength, while the Soviets have all their Infantry, Arty & most of their Tanks & HQ's out - hardly any bombers, no Cavalry, or Tankettes (too expensive)

Production is pretty even as well, though the RAF keep knocking an Armour point off per turn. Quite pleased with that, being ex RAF myself.

FEB 42

Axis did very little this turn - just building up & adjusting his lines. Fins pulled back to be in supply (they are just too b****y tough to attack in Forests - though I am tempted)

Soviets launched an attack out of Leningrad area (Tanks, Shock Army + Arty) only to find a single German Arty was the defender (Air Recce was useless again). Needless to say I inflicted 0 hits (14 dice) & the Arty retreated - what a waste.
Launched assaults against Orel & Bialytosk & took both of these places for few casualties - now within striking distance of Kharkov.
Also attacked West of Moscow & roughly handled 2 German corps who withdrew - again took few casulaties.

2 attacks were launched West & NW of Rostov (quite a bloodbath going on here) This time however the sheer number of Soviet dice prevailed & Axis retreated again having taken losses. Note to Romanian government - eye witness reports say the German forces abandoned a Romanian corps to its destruction - saying something about too many Romanian PP's saved up - just saying!

So we head into Mar 42 (the last turn of Axis 1st winter effects) & a bit of a dilemma. Soviets now in a good position to launch some pretty tasty attacks & may regain a couple of PP centres. However April brings mud which means we will be pretty immobile for a turn & if the dice falls wrong in May & the sun shines we could be in serious trouble, by being out of position as the Axis Panzers once again let rip.

I have a headache!!

All the best

Craig

PS Sorry if its a bit long.
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Emanuele Santandrea
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Very detailed and interesting.

Again I'm impressed on how many things you have already pointed out in this AAR.

The German's retreat is very tricky... they exchange land for man...
Finns attack on Murmansk's rail: you got the secret... At least the convoy route can be interrupted for 1 turn.

Are you throwing VVS's dice without penalties, while LF rolls halved, right?

TIPS
Romanians could start building a factory with the PP excess.

NEXT
The Axis summer offensive can be very dangerous. Do you have any idea of where it can hurt?


@JAN, STEFANO and WALT: I guess this qualifies for the AAR contest.

ALL THE BEST

emanuele
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Alberto Natta
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Exploiting situation to ask - Luftwaffe halves because of the 1st Winter right? But in any other Winter would they halve still during snow turns in attack normally due to weather but not in defending interceptions right?

And that AA is an example that still concerns me.
The AA doing far more damage than the fights for Air Superiority - which can turn Air Superiority irrilevant or low relevant (and linked to the Jericho Trumpets).
Pratically planes go through Air Combat, and AA fire next of a whole area.
Or simply was it not wise to send planes in that combat then (4 steps are a lot considering the planes have also limited rebuilt.)
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Craig Mason
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NEXT
The Axis summer offensive can be very dangerous. Do you have any idea of where it can hurt?



Yes - Everywhere!!!!

With a full strength Axis army & production being about equal I really fear for the Soviets in 42 - have to hope for a short summer & hang on for the Guards re-inforcements.

Yes the VVS are throwing full while the LF are 1/2'd - we have knocked some lumps off the luftwaffe

The Flak is very nasty & it does deter the use of air power, however air in clear weather can be lethal - cannot recall a game where air power alone can destroy you or make you retreat.

Interestingly enough, in almost every other Russian Front game I have played (& its been quite a lot) Soviet production gradually increases until it becomes overwhelming. This does not seem the case in this game as, so long as the Axis can hold their gains, they can more than match the Soviets.
Maybe you should be allowed to convert the Armour & Air PP's into yellow PP's as quite often I cannot use them all due to spending yellow PP's on other things.

Anyway off to practise my rain dance techniques for the May 42 turn.

Craig
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Alberto Natta
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If I got it correctly the Soviets here overwhelm Germany with superior troops (Guards are all elite) and 7 step infantries in abundance which do not cost HQs to be activated. Though I've not got there yet with practice!

Pratically once Tech2 is reached the Soviets can bum in a 4 step artillery (rolling 6 dices at 5+) and 2 7 stepper infantries which when both are of the Guard, roll on 5+ in clear.
I'd say an average of 4-6 hits per round is accomplished. And in '43 when Guards are abundant ... well it's pain and woe for the German.
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Craig Mason
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Unfortunately those Guards don't arrive until late 42 (apart from 1 Cav & 1 Tank corps), so you have still to survive summer 42 - quite tricky.

The Tech 2 Arty will be really nice - & will be built to full every turn.

The big BUT here is that the Axis have lots of nasty Tech 2 stuff already that hit on 5's & 6's (Panzers, SS, Arty & Bombers) & quite a few strength 7 Infantry. I feel that if the Sov's can hang on till winter 42 then the game will swing the other way.

Craig
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Emanuele Santandrea
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Hold on... defend to death for Moscow and Leningrad... give ground in the south and...

roll 6!

November 1942 will be a Tzunami for the Axis...

I love to play the Soviets in BITE. They are always close to surrender and then...


...they knock the Axis down!

 
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Cohen wrote:
Exploiting situation to ask - Luftwaffe halves because of the 1st Winter right? But in any other Winter would they halve still during snow turns in attack normally due to weather but not in defending interceptions right?


LW is quartered surprise(DOUBLE MALI) during the Axis First Winter.

It has been clarified in the incoming 2.2 rules.
 
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Alberto Natta
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In attack - but this case of above was an interception (activating HQ being the non phasing player.). That means they're defending right?
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Craig Mason
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LW is quartered?? Now you tell me!!
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It was not so clear, so it has been clarified.

In BITE, from December 1941 to march 1942 included, ALL the Axis units (but not Finns either other Axis Mountain Troops) got 1 additional MALUS, even when defending.

Italian 2.2 is almost ready


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Craig Mason
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So ALL Axis are quareted (2 Malus) on the attack? That would certainly have made a difference as I would not have been concerned about Axis counter attacks - ah well c'est la Guerre.

Craig
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Emanuele Santandrea
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Right. Absolutely.

The most important thing is that you are surviving at this!

THAT'S GREAT

MY CONGRATULATIONS

A quick preview:

1. 7th Flieger Division and Hungarian Tankettes must be removed in December 1941, while 22LL in July 1942

2. Now Soviet Partisans are stronger...

3. Volksturm.

4. Finnish Surrender.

Other things: nothing serious has been changed.

So you play tonight?
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Emanuele Santandrea
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@CRAIG: I have now noticed that HIPSHOT gave you 1 FULL GEEKGOLD surprise to the 5th post...

You know why?
 
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Craig Mason
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We play tomorrow night.

Are the 2.2 rules available to download?

Sorry I don't know what a GeekGold is?

Craig
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