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Subject: Rezzing Ice on subsequent Server runs rss

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Jay K
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I have checked through the forum and cannot find an answer to this, somewhat simple question. Nor can I find an answer in the rules or FAQ. So here goes:

A server has a run against it which the Corp then decides to rez the ice associated with that server, and for arguments sake the run is unsuccessful.

Next a subsequent run against the same server and we come to the same ice card. Is this card now rez-ed from the previous run; or once the last run was completed was the ice returned to its un-rezzed state and hence the cost to rez the ice must be paid again?

The rules talk about returning server and upgrade cards to their original state, but it doesn't seem to mention ice.

I was assuming that ice had to be rezzed at each run against the server, assuming the Corp wants to of course.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Once a piece of Ice is rezzed, it remains rezzed until instructed otherwise by a card effect.

(Conceptually, Ice is a one-time investment for the Corp that leads to continuous payment by the Runner.)
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Drew Dallas
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once ice is rezzed unless something specifically de-rezes it it stays face up and active.
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Guido Gloor
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In general, try to not assume anything. Assumption is the root of all troubles with game rules.
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Jay K
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haslo wrote:
In general, try to not assume anything. Assumption is the root of all troubles with game rules.


Amen to that. Thanks everyone.
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Yan
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haslo wrote:
In general, try to not assume anything. Assumption is the root of all troubles with game rules.

That and skipping/forgetting parts of the rule book.
 
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Benedetto Loffredo
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JK777 wrote:
I have checked through the forum and cannot find an answer to this, somewhat simple question. Nor can I find an answer in the rules or FAQ. So here goes:

A server has a run against it which the Corp then decides to rez the ice associated with that server, and for arguments sake the run is unsuccessful.

Next a subsequent run against the same server and we come to the same ice card. Is this card now rez-ed from the previous run; or once the last run was completed was the ice returned to its un-rezzed state and hence the cost to rez the ice must be paid again?


Rules, page 18:

Rules wrote:
Note: Breaking all subroutines on a piece of ice does not mean
the ice is trashed. A passed piece of ice remains installed and is
approached during every subsequent run against the server it
protects
.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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Sportacus wrote:
JK777 wrote:
I have checked through the forum and cannot find an answer to this, somewhat simple question. Nor can I find an answer in the rules or FAQ. So here goes:

A server has a run against it which the Corp then decides to rez the ice associated with that server, and for arguments sake the run is unsuccessful.

Next a subsequent run against the same server and we come to the same ice card. Is this card now rez-ed from the previous run; or once the last run was completed was the ice returned to its un-rezzed state and hence the cost to rez the ice must be paid again?
Rules, page 18:
Rules wrote:
Note: Breaking all subroutines on a piece of ice does not mean the ice is trashed. A passed piece of ice remains installed and is approached during every subsequent run against the server it protects.
In Jason's defense, that passage of the rules specifically talks about the ICE being installed, not rezzed. (And the example run doesn't include any instances of all subroutines of a piece of ICE being defeated. Bad example! No biscuit!)

Normally, I'm a huge watchdog of The Munchkin Fallacy ("If the rules don't say you can't, that means you can"), but in this case it kind of seems appropriate to point out that if defeating the ICE meant that the ICE was de-rezzed, that -- as something that changes the game state -- would have been mentioned in the rules.

(The argument can, of course, also be made that "the ICE stays rezzed" is something that should have been explicitly stated in the rules, and I'm not arguing that point. That being said, as that does not include a change to the game state, it's a bit more acceptable that it not be explicit.)
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Benedetto Loffredo
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ryudoowaru wrote:
In Jason's defense, that passage of the rules specifically talks about the ICE being installed, not rezzed.


In my defense I can only say I've read "installed" and not "rezzed".
I'm sorry.

I know that in the rules there is no statement about "ICE stay rezzed", but since there is a card in the core set like Cell Portal it was quite obviuos to me that in all the other case the ICE has to stay rezzed.
Also in the example at page 19 (though it's wrong about Crypsis and the timing of removal its counter) the Runner encounters an already rezzed ICE and the Corp didn't pay again to mantain it rezzed.

That said, maybe none of the above two things are better that state in the rules or in the faq that ICE stay rezzed.
 
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Andy Mills
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Zhab wrote:
haslo wrote:
In general, try to not assume anything. Assumption is the root of all troubles with game rules.

That and skipping/forgetting parts of the rule book.


And thinking it works like it does in Magic.
 
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Yan
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manydills wrote:
And thinking it works like it does in Magic.


I would personally fit this in the "assumption" category. I assume that this must work like in MTG. No it does not...
 
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Big Head Zach
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ryudoowaru wrote:
Normally, I'm a huge watchdog of The Munchkin Fallacy ("If the rules don't say you can't, that means you can")


Thank you for giving a name to my pain.
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