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No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Empty city in EZOC: is it a valid supply source? rss

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Alessandro Canevese
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Hi all.
See the following image for reference.

The question is: is the Russian unit out of supply?
At first my answer was "yes, it's cut off supply". But I've got some doubts as I'm not sure whether the Supply Path should include the city hex itself or not. Please notice that the city itself is in supply, so it's a valid one for 6.1 provisions.
Any suggestions?
Thank you in advance!
Ciao
Alessandro
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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I'd say it is out of supply.
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Carl
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Almecho wrote:
I'd say it is out of supply.


This is correct. Out of supply. Even if the City is still in Soviet hands, because of the enemy's Zones of Control.

But in this case the Soviets could still make a unit appear as a reinforcement/rail move in the city even if in an EZOC. it would make the supply line open again.

Rule 7.6 units placement:

Soviet units are placed in any Soviet controlled City
that can trace a Supply Path (see 6.1) even in EZOCs, or
on any east or south map edge hex in Russia not in an
Enemy Zone of Control.


Rule 9.2 Detraining:

A friendly City hex not captured this player-turn, that
can trace a Overland Supply Path (even in an Enemy
ZOC), or




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Alessandro Canevese
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Ah, thank you for your prompt answers!
I feel relieved, as it is as I would like it were!
Thank you again.
Ciao
Alessandro
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Alessandro Canevese
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P.S.: It's amazing how well it depicts a event as large as it's the Russian campaign in a space as little as the game map and with as few counters as there are in the box. I would say that's a real design gem.
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Carl
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Coenedens wrote:
P.S.: It's amazing how well it depicts a event as large as it's the Russian campaign in a space as little as the game map and with as few counters as there are in the box. I would say that's a real design gem.


Thanks for the good words!

Do know that even if it's a relatively small game, a HUGE amount of work and very serious historical research went into making it! I produced a 2-foot high pile of manuscript & design/research documents for the BASIC 2008 VPG version is game, no kidding. And as much again for the GMT version. It's my first game design ever, so was probably clueless about what I was getting into!
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Randy C
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Maybe clueless about what you were getting into, but certainly not clueless about game design by the end.

No retreat is one of my favorite games.
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Carl
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Calxx55 wrote:

Maybe clueless about what you were getting into, but certainly not clueless about game design by the end.

No retreat is one of my favorite games.


Thanks!

I did have a LOT of "Game Play Years" so it helped, I guess. Plus my Developper (Alan Emrich) is the absolute best.

Hopefully the next GMT "Deluxe No Retreat!" games will be to your liking. There will be five of them total in the series.
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Jan van der Laan
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licinius wrote:
Hopefully the next GMT "Deluxe No Retreat!" games will be to your liking. There will be five of them total in the series.
FIVE!? You must be kidding. Do you ever eat, sleep or even hold a regular job? Will the allready beautiful VPG Gold Banner NR3 also get a GMT DeLuxe treat? What are the subjects of NR4 and NR5? When will they see the living daylight?
 
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Carl
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Jan van der Laan wrote:
licinius wrote:
Hopefully the next GMT "Deluxe No Retreat!" games will be to your liking. There will be five of them total in the series.
FIVE!? You must be kidding. Do you ever eat, sleep or even hold a regular job? Will the allready beautiful VPG Gold Banner NR3 also get a GMT DeLuxe treat? What are the subjects of NR4 and NR5? When will they see the living daylight?


I do all of the above. This is why I put out only about ONE game a year! But it entails one sacrifice: I rarely play games anymore, no time!!!

Yes, for the Deluxe GMT version of NR3 I will add the 1939 Polish campaign to it.

Deluxe No Retreat! 4 The Italian Front: 1943-45. Same form factor as the other NR games. Special system to take care of the "lulls" in the campaign. Fast play also. Variable victory conditions. New application for the "Counterblow" concept. Like in the NR solitaire module, there is a possiblity that players could switch sides during a game (so both can be the main "Allied" attacker).

Deluxe No Retreat! 5 The West Europe Front 1943-45. This one will be the last of the "No retreat!2" series. Two different games into one: The first part will be the "Invasion" preparation (Spies, covert operation, build up for Fortress Europa, etc...) and the actual D-Day landings. The second part of the game will be the rest of the campaign until 1945.

Hopefully I will do NR4 this year, NR5 next year.
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Agung Waspodo
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It's good to hear that more No-Retreats are coming, would this system ever be implemented into the First World War era?
 
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dahusband wrote:
It's good to hear that more No-Retreats are coming, would this system ever be implemented into the First World War era?


Good question. I have no real interest in doing just ONE WWI front right now (but this may change in the future, it's a good challenge), but I have been thinking about a Strategic WWI game with a very low counter count and no stacking at all (one counter per hex).
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Jan van der Laan
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licinius wrote:
I do all of the above. This is why I put out only about ONE game a year! But it entails one sacrifice: I rarely play games anymore, no time!!!

Yes, for the Deluxe GMT version of NR3 I will add the 1939 Polish campaign to it.

Deluxe No Retreat! 4 The Italian Front: 1943-45. Same form factor as the other NR games. Special system to take care of the "lulls" in the campaign. Fast play also. Variable victory conditions. New application for the "Counterblow" concept. Like in the NR solitaire module, there is a possiblity that players could switch sides during a game (so both can be the main "Allied" attacker).

Deluxe No Retreat! 5 The West Europe Front 1943-45. This one will be the last of the "No retreat!2" series. Two different games into one: The first part will be the "Invasion" preparation (Spies, covert operation, build up for Fortress Europa, etc...) and the actual D-Day landings. The second part of the game will be the rest of the campaign until 1945.

Hopefully I will do NR4 this year, NR5 next year.
I tip my hat sir! Designing great games and acting like a normal human being.....wow. But the sacrifice is huge. On the other hand, you must be playing the games you develop. Before the rest of the world can do that. That must be great.

I keep a keen eye on the VPG website and GMT's P500 list. You have must certainly convinced me of the quality of your gamedesigns and at the same time give me the opportunity to put some money aside for future purchases...
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Carl
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Jan van der Laan wrote:
I tip my hat sir! Designing great games and acting like a normal human being.....wow. But the sacrifice is huge. On the other hand, you must be playing the games you develop. Before the rest of the world can do that. That must be great.

I keep a keen eye on the VPG website and GMT's P500 list. You have must certainly convinced me of the quality of your gamedesigns and at the same time give me the opportunity to put some money aside for future purchases...


You are much too kind. A few gamers do think I'm an "asshole", go figure! LOL!

Of course I play my own games! But I'm not able to play them often against other people. So it's mostly solitaire play.

And DO watch GMT's P500, you'll have some surprises very soon... I'll strive to make the next games better. whistle
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Quote:
Two different games into one: The first part will be the "Invasion" preparation (Spies, covert operation, build up for Fortress Europa, etc...) and the actual D-Day landings. The second part of the game will be the rest of the campaign until 1945.


At last!!
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Carl
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inefable urlik wrote:

At last!!


Why "at last"?

Were you waiting for that peculiar "two games in one" concept?

i find most WW2 West Europe operational/strategic games unsatisfying because often the landings are resolved in a few critical die-rolls. I wanted to add more detail and minutiae to the historically very important Invasion part.

But you can play only half of the game if you want! So only the invasion part, or only the "rest of the campaign" part: there will be scenarios for that.
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At last a designer gives attention to Fortitude linked to D-Day (besides Vae Victis' Operation Fortitude - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/81439/operation-forti..., which rules are not public in BGG). A game that involves deceiving into where and when and by what forces. Will there be a diversionary attack + real attack or will it be one stroke? I want to play that.
To me, the really good new game would be from begining of Fortitude to actual landings and first reaction (are there strong beach heads in, say, D+3?), when you can assess if the Allies will make it or not to Berlin, so to speak.
I want to see the Juan Pujol card.ninja
Regards
 
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Carl
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inefable urlik wrote:
At last a designer gives attention to Fortitude linked to D-Day (besides Vae Victis' Operation Fortitude - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/81439/operation-forti..., which rules are not public in BGG). A game that involves deceiving into where and when and by what forces. Will there be a diversionary attack + real attack or will it be one stroke? I want to play that.
To me, the really good new game would be from begining of Fortitude to actual landings and first reaction (are there strong beach heads in, say, D+3?), when you can assess if the Allies will make it or not to Berlin, so to speak.
I want to see the Juan Pujol card.ninja
Regards


Juan Pujol?

Yes indeed, agent Garbo will be in the game.

Operation Fortitude? There was also this title, it did pretty much what I want to achieve, nice map too, but the "card play" was not entirely sucessful:

Bodyguard Overlord



Again, in my case it will be like two games linked into one. So if you just want to play the "invasion and preparation" part, you can do it, and this one will start in 1943, too...

The only "problem" is that I'll probably need TWO sets of event cards, one for each game part.
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Philippe de Monneron
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Allez, je réponds un peu en français !

Toutes ces nouvelles sont excellentes, vraiment ! Bon, évidemment, on n'en a jamais assez... et je serais vraiment heureux si tu pouvais considérer deux autres sujets, qui sait ? La guerre d'Espagne : là aussi, un vrai défi intéressant dans la conception de jeu. Et cela reste dans ta période, si je puis dire. Enfin, même période mais un tout autre problème : la guerre du Pacifique.

Et pourquoi se limiter à trois ? MMP nous prépare un monumental jeu sur la guerre sino-japonaise : il y a de la place pour un jeu à format réduit comme les "No Retreat".

Magnifique système, bravo et bravo encore ! Un bon principe, Carl : ne pas écouter les mauvaises langues et continuer à nous fournir en bons jeux !!! BRAVOd10-9d10-9

(I translate a bit : I congratule Carl but I ask him for more games (Spanish civil war, Pacific, war, Sino-japanese war)... I'm not sure I'm a very nice guy !!!
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Carl
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Philippe wrote:
Allez, je réponds un peu en français !

Toutes ces nouvelles sont excellentes, vraiment ! Bon, évidemment, on n'en a jamais assez... et je serais vraiment heureux si tu pouvais considérer deux autres sujets, qui sait ? La guerre d'Espagne : là aussi, un vrai défi intéressant dans la conception de jeu. Et cela reste dans ta période, si je puis dire. Enfin, même période mais un tout autre problème : la guerre du Pacifique.

Et pourquoi se limiter à trois ? MMP nous prépare un monumental jeu sur la guerre sino-japonaise : il y a de la place pour un jeu à format réduit comme les "No Retreat".

Magnifique système, bravo et bravo encore ! Un bon principe, Carl : ne pas écouter les mauvaises langues et continuer à nous fournir en bons jeux !!! BRAVOd10-9d10-9

(I translate a bit : I congratule Carl but I ask him for more games (Spanish civil war, Pacific, war, Sino-japanese war)... I'm not sure I'm a very nice guy !!!


Merci pour les bon mots Philippe. La guerre d'Espagne. Hum en effet un bon sujet. Justement j'ai beaucoup lu sur ce conflit récemment; mais il y a eu une débauche de simulations là-dessus récemment. Enfin qui sait, un jour.

Le Pacifique cela fait un moment que j'y pense. par manque de temps et de connaissances sur le sujet cela ne sera pas pour très bientôt. La série changera de nom probablement. Ce sera No Retreat: "Hell in Paradise!". Je pense un quadri-game pour celui-ci (Burma, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima)
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Philippe de Monneron
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Excellent ! Bon, prend le temps de vivre, tout de même, de passer du temps avec ceux que tu aimes, et tout ça...

Sur la guerre d'Espagne, en effet il y a eu pas mal de choses de faites - mais que dire alors du front de l'est, le premier auquel tu t'es attaqué ? A vue d'oeil, c'est sans doute le théâtre d'opération sur lequel il y a le plus de jeux.

Concernant le Pacifique, la question permanente est celle de l'intégration élégante dans un système cohérent d'opérations terrestre et aéro-navales, qui ont des logiques et des tempo différents. Cela a produit parfois des jeux injouables... mais quand on y arrive, c'est formidable !

En attendant tout cela, de toute façon, il y a toujours d'autres jeux qui prennent la poussière dans les collections des wargamers maniaques que nous sommes tous plus ou moins.

En te remerciant de nouveau !
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Carl
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En effet. Pour l'Espagne ce n'est pas le nombre de jeux au total, c'est le nombre de jeux publiés résemment! j'en compte au moins une demi-douzaine. Peut-être je le ferai un jour, mais pas maintenant!

le temps de vivre? t'en fais pas je suis un skieur passionné. Et je quitte dans quelques jours visiter ma soeur à londres, puis des amis en Norvège. Je serai à la convention de Essen en Octobre. Et je vais en profiter pour passer par la France (j'ai habité plus de 5ans en France en passant).

Intégration terrewstre et aéro-navale? Ah mais ABSOLUMENT PAS! je vais me concentrer sur les opérations terrestres à un niveau opérationel. Le reste sera simulé par un système de cartes. L'échelle de mes jeux sera trop tetite pour faire autrement.

De la poussière, en effet... Tu devrais voir ma collection! C'est pourquoi je ne ferai que des jeux relativement petits et rapides à jouer... Sinon comme bien d'autres il vont se retrouver dans la poussière!!! whistle
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Philippe de Monneron
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D'accord, je comprends ton choix pour la guerre du Pacifique. A vrai dire, j'aurais du m'en douter un peu vu les noms des projets de Hell in Paradise, comme Iwo Jima.

Bon, ce n'est pas le tout... Pendant que tu skies, il faut que je joue plus souvent à tes jeux, moi !
Bon tour d'Europe, en tout cas...
 
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Andrew Migliore
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For English speakers... a quick translation of the key parts:

Quote:

Thank you for the good words Philippe. The Spanish Civil War. Hmm indeed a good topic. I just read a lot recently about the conflict, but there was a riot of simulations on it recently. Finally, who knows, one day.

Pacific it's been a while I think. lack of time and knowledge on the subject it will not be very soon. Series name change probably. No it will Retreat: "Hell in Paradise". I think a quad for this game (Burma, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima)
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