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Subject: Win Conditions? (And couple other questions) rss

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Geoffrey Wilson
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What are the win conditions for each side?

(I haven't played Abyss or Libre.)

I'm espeically interested in the Coalition versus Afghan government, where they're in an awkward alliance and only one player can win.

Also, the game is playable solo right, with every other faction played by flow chart?

Can you play as anyone when you do that, not just the Coalition?

I'm on the fence, ALMOST going to buy this, only thing slowing my hand is that I will rarely or ever be able to get 3 other players, it's gonna be solo or 2 player for me.

I love Labyrinth by the way!

Thanks for any answers!

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Mike Owens
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something wrote:
What are the win conditions for each side?


During propaganda rounds:

Coalition: Total Population in Support plus the number of pieces in the Coalition Available Forces box exceeds 30.

Government: Total COIN-Controlled Population plus Patronage exceeds 35.

Taliban: Total Population in Opposition plus the number of Taliban Bases on the map exceeds 20.

Warlords: Total Uncontrolled Population within Afghanistan exceeds 15 and Warlord Resources exceed 40.

Quote:
(I haven't played Abyss or Libre.)


You should definitely give AA a try! You can always find a PBEM game by posting in the Play By Forum.

Quote:
I'm espeically interested in the Coalition versus Afghan government, where they're in an awkward alliance and only one player can win.


It is indeed a double game that the Government must play; the Coalition and Government victory conditions are mutually supporting and the COIN factions must work together but still meet their own agenda.

It gives ADP a much different dynamic from AA where the Government tolerates the AUC presence but won't hesitate to take action against right-wing terrorism.

Quote:
Also, the game is playable solo right, with every other faction played by flow chart?


Correct!

Quote:
Can you play as anyone when you do that, not just the Coalition?


Absolutely!

Quote:
I'm on the fence, ALMOST going to buy this, only thing slowing my hand is that I will rarely or ever be able to get 3 other players, it's gonna be solo or 2 player for me.


The COIN series games work really well as 2-player games, the autonomous factions creating a dynamic environment. Also the downtime between actions is reduced.

[Edited because spelling is hard.]
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Geoffrey Wilson
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Thank you kindly!

Definitely buying now!

I've been wanting to try my hand at Afghanistan, I love the way a war game helps me think through a conflict, even in the abstract.

Oh one more question, reality-wise, do the ends of games feel like a real plausible end to the war?

The war is still going on, so that complicates things, but thematically do you feel satisifed with the endings?
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Drew Thomson
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This is the end; hold your breath and count to ten; feel the earth move and then; hear my heart burst again
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"We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are; one equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
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MikeO wrote:

something wrote:
Can you play as anyone when you do that, not just the Coalition?

Absolutely!


Really? I didn't know that. That's awesome! Andean Abyss only allows a solo player to play as the Government, doesn't it?
 
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Mike Owens
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sdrewthomson wrote:
Really? I didn't know that. That's awesome! Andean Abyss only allows a solo player to play as the Government, doesn't it?


That's correct. Maybe something for a future issue of C3i?
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Volko Ruhnke
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There are at least 2 home brew AA Govbots that I have heard of in the works, one discussed here.
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Volko Ruhnke
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sdrewthomson wrote:
MikeO wrote:

something wrote:
Can you play as anyone when you do that, not just the Coalition?

Absolutely!


Really? I didn't know that. That's awesome! ...

Just to ratchet that back a touch ...

A Distant Plain (as well as Cuba Libre) unlike Andean Abyss have flowcharts for all four Factions. So, in theory, yes, you could play solitaire as any of the four (or even "0-player").

However, the solitaire system is optimized and tested for a more challenging and realistic game (in terms of non-player actions) for solo as either of two factions, the Coalition or the Taliban in A Distant Plain, Castro or Batista in Cuba Libre. For solo play as either of the other two factions in each game, I make no promises regarding how smoothly it will work!

A cool aspect of all this is how well the bots allow games to continue when one or more players leave or join in. In AA, all you needed was always to have a Government player, and a game could continue, and players could even jump in and take over a faction for which the bot had been developing its position. In ADP and CL, it's even better than that, as there is no one player faction that is indispensable, so convention play, for example, should be even more flexible.

Regards, Volko
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Volko Ruhnke
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something wrote:
Thank you kindly!

Definitely buying now!

I've been wanting to try my hand at Afghanistan, I love the way a war game helps me think through a conflict, even in the abstract.

Oh one more question, reality-wise, do the ends of games feel like a real plausible end to the war?

The war is still going on, so that complicates things, but thematically do you feel satisifed with the endings?

I'm surely biased, but I've been pleased so far with how they do. I posted the following on 11 January, at the end of a PBF game by 4 of our ace COIN testers and just as Karzai happened to be visiting town here:

Quote:
...Great end-of-game reflections, thanks!

I had thought from the outset that Coalition should be the trickiest to play, particularly in an endgame, since the timing is both critical and uncertain for them. If anyone is following the US discussions this week of how many troops to leave behind in Afghanistan, the dilemmas in the game are not far off, I think (indeed, the game boils them down to a far simpler set).

In the same vein, the factional competition that comes most to a head in the game as the end nears seems to me to well mimic the endgame stresses of the real life actors, particularly at the moment here in Washington between Karzai and Obama. The Afghan Government wants to keep its patronage-style of governance going, keep getting help to build it's army, and keep enough Coalition forces in country to help it maintain control. The US and its allies are in a rush to get out as completely as possible and want to leave an Afghan Govt behind that has the popular support they think the key ingredient to long term stability. Very different visions of the way ahead and thus of "victory".

vfr
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