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Subject: Complexity compared to Normandy 44 rss

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Malte Menger
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Hello guys,

i recently purchased Normandy '44. So far this game looks really good but still i have this urge to get something bigger, more engaging. Im thinking about taking the plunge into this "monster" but I am not sure that the complexity of The Battle for Normandy is more than I am willing to take.

Right now I feel like Normandy '44 is as far as I would like to get regarding complexity as I dont like having a zillion of exceptions to remember with little to no gain gameplaywise. What do you think, how complex are those games compared to each other?
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Oscar Oliver
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I will say that BfN is a low difficulty wargame. Rules were easy to very easy to learn for the players in our local club. Dunno about Normandy 44.
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I had a plan...
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The rules are online so you can read them for yourself. You can also try the invasion day via vassal. The combat mechanics change somewhat after that so if you wanted to go further you'd need to buy the game, but it will give you a flavor, and invasion day is probably the funnest part of the invasion.

The parts that I had problems with were attaching artillery to divisions. Everything else was pretty straightforward. So I'd say it was relatively low complexity, but can't compare it to Normandy '44.
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Robert Stuart
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I've played Normandy '44. I own Battle for Normandy but haven't played it yet.

Everything I've read indicates that the rules are not complex for a game of its size. In evaluating whether you would like Battle for Normandy, then, I would look at the size and ask if you want a game like that:

5 22x34 maps, vs 1 22x34 map for Normandy '44.

9 countersheets, vs 2 countersheets for Normandy '44.

If money isn't that much of an object, you could consider buying the game, leaving it unpunched, and playing it on VASSAL to see if it's not too complex for you. If it is too complex for you, you could then delete your VASSAL copy and sell the game for roughly what you paid for it.



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Darrell Hanning
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I just skimmed over the rules for Normandy '44, and they seem to be in about the same ballpark as BfN's. Where BfN significantly differs is:

1) Allied supply system is more granular. On the other hand, the Germans only have to manage trace supply, so consumption is not a problem for them.
2) Attachment of Corps assets. This is something that involves some work, most turns, primarily for assignment of artillery units.
3) Beach landing queues. These must be managed for several turns, at the beginning, and determine what order of arrival is for all units.
4) Airborne/Glider landings. Little bit more involved, but this is mostly just a procedural addition.

I don't think you'd have much more of a problem absorbing BfN's rules. There are some places where the rules seem a bit ambiguous, but Dan Holte (the designer) has always been very responsive to any and all questions (and likely what questions you have are already posted by someone else, in the game's forum).
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Joe Kundlak
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I am also plannign to dive into TBfN rules as this game appeals to me very much.

Why? Because I am interested in getting into The Longest Day
That one because it is a classic, still played today and after finding the redesigned counters online I decided to redo them again (their layout is inconsistent and that is a pin in my eye). I also plan to do the maps from scratch (as only two mapboards were ever redesigned by an unknown author as far as I know).

This project will most likely get back onto my radar next year, after I finish my commitments to Panzer Leader.

But inbetween I will read those TBfN rules and from what I saw so far, Darrell is right - N44 and TBfN are roughly in the same territory with TBfN most probably having a bit more detail. I am currently playing N4 via Vassal (first game ever), so after that I do not expect huge differences in the rules.
 
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Tom Stearns
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Re: Joe

BfN is much more playable game than TLD. I have played both extensively. Not sure TLD will make it to my table again.

As to the OP: I own and have played both N44 and BfN. As stated above, they are pretty similar levels of complexity rules wise, but are completely different games due to the scales. N44 is of course playable in smaller amount of time, takes up much less space and is easily played solo. BfN is a true monster game in space, maps and counters. I can easily recommend owning and playing both games.
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