Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Triumph of Chaos» Forums » Rules

Subject: Proposed new rules, variants and errata since Sept 9 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
List of PROPOSED optionals, errata and variants since Sept 9 errata

Thought I might summarize the current list of proposed optionals, the two new errata in the last 6 months and Rik's variant. Rule numbers are just proposed rule numbers, I anticipate making these official around mid March

Have I missed anything?

As of march 14, 2006

New optional, mandatory rules or corrections:

[b]5.221 At Start Forces - WHITE
WHITE Controlled Factions (Correction)

White sets up the Britain and Finland in accordance with the setup described in the Faction specific rules (8.314 and 8.317), overriding the reference to the Finland c1 and British RES C1 indicated in the setup. Cz Leg CE1 in Strategic Reserve (not Dead)
WHITE: WHITE RU c 7: Strategic Reserve , WHITE Fin c2: Lieska 135

5.222 At Start Forces – RED (Correction)
Tsaritsyn: RED 10 Army (not dead box), Stalin L, RED C7, Cheka C1
Moskva: Lenin L, Lat Rifle C2

5.26 Victory Conditions (NEW)
WHITE wins instantly if it controls either Petrograd or Moskva or if it achieves 14 Victory Points at anytime.

RED wins if it has at least 10 VPs AND 3 of the following 5:

1) Controls all RED home regions VCs
2) Controls all Ukrainian VCs
3) Controls all Don VCs
4) Controls all Urals North and Urals Central VCs
5) Controls the Polish Faction

5.261 Determining Sides“Bid” VPs are immediately entered on the Game Track.

5.282 At Start Hands (Coorection)
WHITE begins with AC 1 & 2 in their hand.
RED begins with AC 16 & 24 in their hand.
(Optional rule: either side or both begins with ACs in their hand). Both sides then draw enough ACs for the required hand size of 7.

8.111 WHITE Operations Bonus (NEW)
If WHITE leads in VCs at beginning of Action Phase (and turn 1 they are considered to lead for the purposes of this rule) AND RED placed at least one Action Card with a Card Value of 5 in a Political Box during the Political Phase, WHITE may play any AC during their first Action Phase as "operations" and activate 4 spaces. {Note: Essentially, a bonus of 2 free ops if WHITE plays an Action Card with a Card Value of 2}.

8.152 The Other Political Box. Special PC 66 "Anarchy in Russia"
Replace all PCs in Political Boxes (PBs) with 2 PCs from to be drawn deck for each PB. If PC 64 or PC 65 appear, replace with another PC. Reshuffle all decks after phase."

8.316 Czech Legion Rule (Correction)
WHITE Influence Bonus: The Czech Legion begins the game in control of one Victory City in the East Region.

8.321 & 14.31 Poland Faction RS Bonus (Correction)
Poland receives 2 Faction Replacement Steps (RS) for use with the Polish Faction forces per turn per each Polish VC controlled by the controlling side (of the Polish Faction).

8.321 Polish Response Table
Poland my only move into the Faction's region that triggered the intervention (following the usual one round delay - rule 8.142). Additionally, if triggered by a RED move into Ukraine, and WHITE has played AC#36 (Preparations for Haller), Poland may move into a RED controlled West Ukraine the following game turn after intervention is triggered.

8.324 Ukrainian Peasant Armies are Insurrection Armies Rule (NEW)
If Ukrainian Peasant Armies go Peasant Revolt, treat them like Insurrection Armies (IA) (rule 16.34) and they are not considered Ukrainian, but RED or WHITE (depending on which side gained control during the Revolt).

14.31 WHITE RS Western Allies Bonus (NEW)
WHITE receives 1 RS per each of the USA, France and Britain faction controlled during the Logistics Phase (so 3 RS maximum for controlling all three).

14.41 Army Placement WHITE: BAF: North Army (NEW)
North Army may be rebuilt in any Baltic port, East Prussia or Murmansk or Archangel.

15.41 Wrangel Arrives (NEW)
Upon WHITE controlling 601 (Tsaritsyn) or 819 (Voronezh) for the first time during a replacement phase, WHITE receives Wrangel free (no RS cost) at either controlled VC.

16.291 Peoples' Armies (NEW)
Prior to the instant of a combat involving any of Peoples armies 1,2,3 & 4, roll a die and consult:

1-3: Eliminate the army (place in dead pool...and corps from the reserve), 4-6: No effect

Die Modifiers (RED may only apply one modifier): Stacked with Cheka unit: +3, with a leader: +2, with elite unit: +1, +1 if defending

If RED is attacking, RED may call off the attack, after seeing the results of the die roll above.

16.39 Timing Restraint on Green, Insurrection Armies (IAs) or Partisans (NEW)
Neither side may play AC#6, AC#29 or Action Cards that generate IAs as an event during the last two Action Rounds of a turn. As an optional rule, ignore this rule, for a more “cut throat” game.

16.74 White Tide (New Optional)
WHITE receives a +1 to Cavalry Surprise for WHITE units drawing supply from 301 (Sevatopol), 310 (Yekaterinodar) or 324 (Rostov) providing WHITE controls a RED home VC by the end of Turn 2, WHITE has more VCs than RED AND Wrangel has arrived (rule 15.41). Subsequently, WHITE loses "White Tide" immediately (for the game) when WHITE has less VCs than RED or Wrangel is eliminated.

16.515 Ending In-Fighting Rule (Correction)
Eliminate +2 for elimination of Lenin – In-Fighting continues for the game.

Clarifications

8.1321 "If Faction controlled..."
If a FCM occupies the control box, it is considered "controlled" for preventing movement of the FCM due to various Action Cards (ex: AC#8)

8.142 First Round Restriction
If an enemy attacks a newly controlled Faction, the restriction is immediately lifted, including that friendly leaders may immediately use their capabilities.

8.152 Nest of Spies PC#64
If PC#64 occurs in Turn 1, RED is considered “ahead” in VCs i.e. roll of 1-5 benefits RED, only a roll of 6 benefits WHITE

8.316 Gajda Putsch
Si Army 2, 3 and 4 are subject to the effects of the Gajda Putsch (not Si Army 1).

9.23 Initiative Cards
Initiative Cards played to cancel an enemy combat activation marker must be played after the enemy designates hexes for combat or movement activation and prior to the enemy beginning movement.

11.1 General Combat Rules (Voluntary attacks)
Once a side declares after all its movement is completed, "Hex A is attacking enemy Hex B”, the attack must proceed (with exception of the People Army rule).

12.32 Out of the Strategic Reserve box – RED
Red Fin corps may not be SR’d to Finland until the border restrictions (rule 16.45) are lifted.

14.31 VCs: Capture of enemy home region
1 RS to the capturing side if VC captured during the Action Phase.

15.14 Counterattack
No terrain combat shifts or combat modifiers are generated in a counterattack.

16.1 VCs: Capturing an Enemy Victory City
The moment an a side captures (occupies) during the Action Phase an enemy controlled VC, it recieves a free IP...

16.34 Kronstadt
The connection with Petrograd is a rail line.

16.36 AC#4 Switch Sides Units
"...The armies may replace any enemy unit (corps or army) in the target space. Replaced units go to the Dead Box (plus the associated corps from the Strategic Reserve if army was eliminated). The armies are in full supply (unless placed during winter - in which case they are in limited supply) during the entire turn.

If the army must be placed in an adjacent space (enemy unit remains in the target space), the space selected by the placing player should be in supply. If not, the enemy may select the space.

Once both armies have been placed, no further "switching of sides" may occur."


Variants:

Rik's Makhno Variant [NEW]

Mesage 1532 (on consim)

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?7@181.gjThbkTDI4y.678747@.1...

So far, I've only made the 1 page errata changes (Sept 9) since ToC was published in June, and, I'd like to continue to hold changes to a bare minimum (a challenge with card driven wargames!. I haven't felt any need to do so - based upon feedback on this board (highest rated BGG game in 2005) and elsewhere (consimworld).

Feel free to suggest anything other changes.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Han Jonkers
Netherlands
flag msg tools
I’m wondering that no more questions have been raised since publicising ToC, because I’ve been struggling to start a first play and immediately ran into the following:

5.3 Intro Scenario: 1918.
If the CP, Poland and Ukraine are removed from play, West-Ukraine should also be removed because it is isolated otherwise, or is there a reason for leaving West-Ukraine in the game?

There is a conflict in the following two rules, which should be adapted as described below, is that right?

8.316: White Influence Bonus:
The CL begins the game in control of ONE, not two, VC's in the East Region. Samara is not under control of the CL, but the Socialist Rev Army (White side) see 5.121.

5.11: Place WHITE VC marker on 8, not 7: 7 VCs in WHITE Home Regions in Russia minus RED controlled Migulinskaya and plus Samara AND Kazan, because White starts with 'influence' of the CL. Also, the sentence "WHITE will frequently obtain VC credit for either gaining influence or control of the Czech Legion" doesn't make sense, see 8.316.

Furthermore just an ordinary flaw:

11.64, Retreat priority:
Add a rule for two-step retreat. I suppose the rule can be copied from PoG, i.e. rule 12.5.7 last bullet: "For two space retreats, follow the retreat priority for the first space and then follow the priority again from the first space to the second space".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"5.3 Intro Scenario: 1918.
If the CP, Poland and Ukraine are removed from play, West-Ukraine should also be removed because it is isolated otherwise, or is there a reason for leaving West-Ukraine in the game?"


I left West Ukraine in only for including it in the Political Game.

"There is a conflict in the following two rules, which should be adapted as described below, is that right?

8.316: White Influence Bonus:
The CL begins the game in control of ONE, not two, VC's in the East Region. Samara is not under control of the CL, but the Socialist Rev Army (White side) see 5.121.

5.11: Place WHITE VC marker on 8, not 7: 7 VCs in WHITE Home Regions in Russia minus RED controlled Migulinskaya and plus Samara AND Kazan, because White starts with 'influence' of the CL. Also, the sentence "WHITE will frequently obtain VC credit for either gaining influence or control of the Czech Legion" doesn't make sense, see 8.316."

Correct - I will add 8.316 to the errata (ONE VC).

Furthermore just an ordinary flaw:

"11.64, Retreat priority:
Add a rule for two-step retreat. I suppose the rule can be copied from PoG, i.e. rule 12.5.7 last bullet: "For two space retreats, follow the retreat priority for the first space and then follow the priority again from the first space to the second space". "

I could add a clarification, but, I think the current 11.64 rule is fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cosme Churruca
Spain
flag msg tools
Re: Some questions about TOC.....
Good Morning.
I beg your pardon if this is not the place to writ my questions, but this is my first time writing in a forum like this.
Me and my friens bought TOC a month ago. We thought it was a great idea and based on a very interesting period. We start playing yesterday and there rose some questions. I would be very grateful if you could help us:
1) As the rules say, in your action phase you activate "spaces" for combat OR movement.Thus, can you activate one "empty" space to let units that arrived there coming from a space activated for movement attack to an adjacent enemy space when they arrived there? Or is it only possible to activate spaces whit troops of your side/controlled factions?
2) Can you use different combinations of activations for combat of movement to activate the same corp or army TWICE in the same player´s ROUND (not turn)?

The game is quite good, and I think it is going to let us spend great times playing.

Thanks in advance and Best Regards to all of you from Spain.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is the correct place for rules questions:


"Q1. As the rules say, in your action phase you activate "spaces" for combat OR movement.Thus, can you activate one "empty" space to let units that arrived there coming from a space activated for movement attack to an adjacent enemy space when they arrived there?"

No.

"Q2.Or is it only possible to activate spaces whit troops of your side/controlled factions?"
Yes.


2) Can you use different combinations of activations for combat of movement to activate the same corp or army TWICE in the same player´s ROUND (not turn)?

No.

Also, make sure you download the errata and playaids. Additionally, the new proposed rules changes are listed above in this forum. I anticipate making them official in Feb 2006.

And thank you for the feedback. Enjoy the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Conley
United States
Milwaukie
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Life is too short not to live it up a little!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HELLO! FINALLY picked up a copy of ToC based on all the recommendations on BGG. Easily the BEST-LOOKING wargame I've seen in a long time! Gorgeous map and counters...just beautiful. Can't wait to give it a spin soon!

David...just checking re. your last post here. You said to make sure to download the errata and playaids. I saw the errata on BGG, but no playaids. What am I missing? I'd like to get eveything I need lined up before we break the game out!

THANKS!

Dan
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the feedback.

Playaids - listed in the files here on BGG for ToC - same place where you got the errata from - I think 8 of them - example "Red Cheat Sheet".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Conley
United States
Milwaukie
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Life is too short not to live it up a little!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks, David! I'll take another look!

Dan
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Tagge
China
Guangzhou
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A couple of us here at the American Embassy in Moscow have enjoyed the game, I especially liked the feel of the political phase. (I remember reading on ConSimWorld that you didn't know of any players in Russia!). I was wondering if you had an electronic version of the rules including the updates so that we could have a better AAR to look at missed opportunities/rules.

The gist of our first playing and the suggestions for variants show that the Reds have the advantage. Do you have any suggestions for additional RPs for White to balance this out or any other opinions?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've just uploaded the new ToC errata. Version 1.2. April 22, 2006. Should post in a day or two.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Current - Jan 5, 2007 - of PROPOSED FINAL ToC Errata (v1.5)
Triumph of Chaos: Current list of proposed errata 1.5, Jan 5, 2007
Note: Errata currently in effect is 1.4; this would be additional clarifications, etc
Current proposed rule change list for 1.5 - Did I miss anything? It reflects nips and tucks from the ToC WBC tourney this summer and the online playing on Vassal the last few months. I'll wait a few days before any last comments - and update the Living Rules. And close the book on ToC rules (he said).

13.4 OOS Stack Activation

Activating an OOS stack costs 1 OPs for each leader or unit

14.11 Reinforcements - RED Reinforcing Army Restriction

Reinforcing RED armies enter flipped if a leader is NOT present in the space receiving the armies. This restriction is permanently removed if RED controls ALL 9 of its Home Region VCs AND it is 1919 or later.

15.52 Voluntary Leader Removal

Non-OOS Friendly leaders may be voluntarily removed during a player's Action Round for 1 VP

16.514: Voluntary In-Fighting Chit Violation

RED may only choose to violate the Trotsky, Stalin or Lenin In-Fighting Chits

16.523: WHITE In-Fighting Counters: -VC = -FCM

If WHITE loses a VC during the Action Phase (not Logistics or Political Phase), RED may shift 3 uncontrolled FCMs 1 space toward RED control, but not into RED control

16.524 Voluntary In-Fighting Chit Violation

WHITE may only choose to violate the Siberian, Don Cossacks, Siberian Cossacks and the Other In-Fighting Chits

16.36 Action Cards

RED AC#10 “Blustering in the Baltics”: In addition to playing the AC for the event listed, RED may choose (either or) to utilize as the following:

“Courting the Baltics

Remove Political Phase Restrictions on RED (unless this event has been played, RED may NOT gain control of Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania during the Political Phase.

WHITE AC#9 “Czech Legion Commits”: Place Czech Army 3 with any supplied Czech unit. Place Czech 3 corps in the strategic reserve.

WHITE AC#28 “Faction Reinforcements”: WHITE receives any and all units listed, assuming the control the stated Faction and any listed prerequisites are met.

WHITE AC#44 “White Eagle Fights-1”: Condition #2 "RED force (any RED army, corps or leader) are in Baltics or Ukraine.

And a few changes regarding Ukaine, West Ukraine and Poland - have done some more research lately (for the upcoming Comrades’ Guide)

8.315 Baltics (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania): RED Political Phase Restriction
RED must play AC#10 “Blustering in the Baltics” as the “Courting the Baltics” option (errata 1.5) in order to gain control of any of the Baltics during the Political Phase.

8.315 Central Powers Bonus and Penalty RS
WHITE Control of the Central Powers produces 2 bonus Replacement Steps for WHITE. RED control of the Central Powers results in 2 RS's subtracted from WHITE. Additionally, Allied FCMs (Britain, France and USA) may not move towards the CP controlling side during the Political Phase.

These last optional rules give Ukraine a little more punch - but I think play balance is fine without it.

8.321 Poland & 8.326 West Ukraine...Movement Restrictions – Poland (optional)
1. Self Defense: Poland forces begin the game in with "Self-Defense" movement restrictions. Polish forces may not leave Poland EXCEPT a WHITE controlled Poland may enter a RED controlled West Ukraine. Upon moving into West Ukraine, roll a die: 1-3, immediately shift the USA and British FCMs 1 box towards RED control (regardless of any other considerations) 4-6, No Effect and roll a die second: 1-3, shift an uncontrolled Ukraine FCM 1 towards RED control. Poland moves to other states of movement restrictions if the appropriate conditions are met (listed below) 4-6 No Effect.

8.324 Ukraine & 8.326 West Ukraine WHITE Ukrainian Alliance (optional)
If WHITE gains control of Ukraine while Poland and West Ukraine are uncontrolled, roll a die:

1-3 West Ukraine becomes WHITE controlled
4-6 No Effect

8.324 Ukraine Activation Restriction (optional)
If a side activates ANY spaces containing friendly Ukrainian forces, that side may only activate those spaces in a given Action Round. This restriction is ignored if the friendly side played AC#14 “Diplomatic Posturing with the Republics” as an event.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benoit Larose
Canada
Montreal
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
David,

White AC#9 places CL Army 3 even if played in 1918? Counter has a "19" on it.

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dockter
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes - place the Czech 3rd even if played in 1918.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.