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Subject: for henry - event card clarification rss

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Bill Meyers
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i'd like to add my congradulations on a great game to the designers. the one issue we have with the rules is when exactly conditions are met on event cards to enable a new premier title to be brought out. obviously, if a tile comes out at the end of the bidding round, it gets the drop in minimum cost starting out on the next turn. could you give us a quick run-through on which cards could possibly held back & which ones are resolved immediately thus enabling the tile to come foward before bidding?
(ie. if a no bid card comes out; do we wait until the end of the bidding pahse to place the tile indicated on the event card?)

this would help everyone alot.
thanks, bill meyers
 
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David Etherton
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Turn order is:

1. Drop Prices (on tiles on the board at that instant)

2. For each premiere tile that is missing, repeat 2a thru 2c:

2a. Flip an event card and follow the instructions.
2b. If it affects prices, it only affects the prices on the tiles on the board right then (including tiles from previous event cards this turn)
2c. Then turn over and place the tile indicated on the card.

2d. Place No Bid markers on any tiles indicated by event cards. Note that in this one case a card can affect tiles that are placed on the board after the card is turned.

(Actually I'm not positive about 2d, but that seems to make the most sense to me, although after consideration it does seem an unnecessary special case)
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Todd Sweet
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We have played that "No Bid" events last for the whole turn therefore they affect tiles turned up after the event card. Otherwise the event cards that are instant actions (lower/raise prices) only affect the tiles on the board.
 
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Bill Meyers
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guys,
thanks for the feedback, but you are making my point here. we all have logical solutions to this ambiguous rule, but chances are they aren't all correct. that's why we need the game designer to clarify info about all cards.
it doesn't make sense to me to pull out a tile immediately on an event card that talks about a bonus the first time someone ups a bid-
you should have to wait until that happens during bidding before a tile should come out. when? as soon as that happens, or at the end of bidding?
what about no bid events- they last the entire turn; does the tile get placed immediately or when the no bid markers come off?
what if there is a bonus for restaurants but no one has one? does the event card stay on the table until someone (or many people) buy a restaurant in a future turn ?

let's get the rules right the way the designer intended
 
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David Etherton
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I'm hoping Hnery will jump in here as well, I was just trying to restate the problem as clearly as possible.

Event cards are only valid for the turn they are drawn. In some cases up to four event cards could be active at the same time (in a 4p game where all four Premiere tiles were purchased last round).

I'll spell everything out and let Henry correct my mistakes:

(I'll leave out events which seem obvious to me)

Sale! / Rise in Demand - Affects tiles on the board when the card is flipped, specifically not the tile that this card would cause to be pulled after the event is resolved.

Slot King / Slot Tourney / Thanksgiving / Famous Chef / Ladies Night / Lounge Lizard - Score (whatever) for every (whatever) you have on your sheet at the time the card is flipped.

(Whatever) Builders On Strike - Can't bit on (whatever) this turn. Since it specifically says "this turn" that means to me that even tiles yet to be flipped are affected.

Master Planner - Score 3 fame if you can trace a route between both entraces at the point the card is flipped. This was specifically mentioned in another thread -- if Slot Surplus was previously flipped this turn and you bought and placed a slot that completed a connection and then you flipped this card next, you would get the bonus.

Master Designer - Again, scored based on what your sheet looks like at the time the card is flipped.

Taxes - In another thread Henry specifically stated that if you pulled two of these cards on the same turn your income is still only halved, not quartered.

Good Relations - Affects bidding for the rest of this turn. Based on the Taxes ruling, I'd say that if two of these showed up on the same turn it would still only be two steps, not four. (Confirmed by Henry in another thread)

Visionary - Score 1 fame each time you outbid a player on this turn. Again, if two of these show up it would seem that you'd still only get 1 fame. Based on Henry's ruling in another thread, if both Visionary cards turned up in the same turn, they would stack, giving you a two fame bonus for overbidding somebody.
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Sean McCarthy
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ebill1 wrote:
it doesn't make sense to me to pull out a tile immediately on an event card that talks about a bonus the first time someone ups a bid-
you should have to wait until that happens during bidding before a tile should come out. when? as soon as that happens, or at the end of bidding?


You are clearly insane (in a nice way). The effect of the card is to change a rule, and the rule change lasts for the turn. You flip a new tile right after changing the rule, not after the rule gets used.

Quote:
what about no bid events- they last the entire turn; does the tile get placed immediately or when the no bid markers come off?


Ditto. The card changes a rule for the duration of the turn. When you draw the card, you 1) note the rule change, and then 2) flip a tile.

Quote:
what if there is a bonus for restaurants but no one has one? does the event card stay on the table until someone (or many people) buy a restaurant in a future turn ?


No. Right at that instant, people get points or money for restaurants. That is the effect of the card. Then you flip a tile.

I think all the events fit into one of these categories. They either A) change a rule for the remainder of the turn, or B) have an immediate effect. When you draw the card, you just DO IT right then, and then draw the tile. It's very simple.
 
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Bill Meyers
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actually, you're insane. ......and a bit egotistical! i mean that only in a nice way also.
nothing in the rules says that all tiles get pulled immediately after every event card (especially if an action hasn't been completed). in view of the other peoples questions about this, it makes sense to clarify the situation.
if you want to make up your own rules, great- but you won't get any royalties on this game. i'd prefer to wait on the designer's thoughts on this .
 
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David Etherton
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ebill1 wrote:

nothing in the rules says that all tiles get pulled immediately after every event card (especially if an action hasn't been completed). in view of the other peoples questions about this, it makes sense to clarify the situation.


I respectfully disagree.

Page 5:
Quote:

...fill an empty premier space on the game board by drawing 1 card from the event deck. Then, follow the instructions on that card, completing any actions it says to take.

If an Event card says you can't bid on a certain type of tile or take a particular action this turn, put a No-Bid marker on the affected tiles or action as a reminder. If you can't complete an action immediately, leave the card in play until can can complete it.

After you've completed the Event card action, look at the symbol in the center of the card.

Flip the top tile of the premier stack indicated by the symbol and fill an empty premier space with it.


The only part that seems potentially confusing to me is "If you can't complete an action immediately, leave the card in play until you can complete it." which may be what is confusing you as well. However, I think that's simply there to cover cards like "Convention" "Good Relations" and "Visionary" which take their effect later in the turn.

-Dave
 
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Brian Newman
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ebill1 wrote:
actually, you're insane. ......and a bit egotistical! i mean that only in a nice way also.
nothing in the rules says that all tiles get pulled immediately after every event card (especially if an action hasn't been completed). in view of the other peoples questions about this, it makes sense to clarify the situation.


It's just like the event cards in Arkham Horror. The individual sections on the card are not dependent upon one another; they are considered independently.

First, do the event section.
Second, do the tile section.

The only dependence is that you do one first and the other one second.

Can you quote a section of the rules that backs up your point, that tiles only get replenished from the event card if and only if some later play in the turn causes the event to trigger? If you could point me to a page number and paragraph number, that would be excellent.

Quote:
if you want to make up your own rules, great- but you won't get any royalties on this game. i'd prefer to wait on the designer's thoughts on this .


I disagree that antagonizing strangers is a good way to get along in life, but hey, if you want to make up your own rules, great.


 
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Bill Meyers
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brian,
since i started this post, please believe me that i wasn't looking to antagonize anyone.i don't like being talked down to, & i responded to someone else calling me insane for simply trying to get a point in the rules clarified for eveyone's benefit. i've seen people on boardgame geek get presumptuous before about rule interpretation only to get egg over their face when the game designer straigthened things out. i don't have a hard position ; only a desire to learn the rules the way they were intended.
the question i have refers to the statement in the rules (page 6) that if the action on the event card pulled was not resolved that the card remains on the table until resolution - followed then by the placement of the premier tile. why would the people who wrote the rules make a point of stating the event card stays out until it is resolved if what you suggest is the opposite? why not state the rule as: play the event card & then immediately place the correct size tile listed on the event card? the reason it makes sense to me to slow down the placement of some tiles is that it provides more tension in bidding; & the new tile when placed later in the turn would automatically get dropped in price the next turn.
i own arkham horror myself & this seems much different to me. believe me if henry confirms your take on this or david's, or anyone else's, i'll simply be happy to have the correct answer.
ok., i'm off my soapbox on this one-
no more posts from me till this gets confirmed.
regards, bill
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Henry Stern
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etherton wrote:
I'm hoping Hnery will jump in here as well, I was just trying to restate the problem as clearly as possible.

Event cards are only valid for the turn they are drawn. In some cases up to four event cards could be active at the same time (in a 4p game where all four Premiere tiles were purchased last round).

I'll spell everything out and let Henry correct my mistakes:

(I'll leave out events which seem obvious to me)

Sale! / Rise in Demand - Affects tiles on the board when the card is flipped, specifically not the tile that this card would cause to be pulled after the event is resolved.

Slot King / Slot Tourney / Thanksgiving / Famous Chef / Ladies Night / Lounge Lizard - Score (whatever) for every (whatever) you have on your sheet at the time the card is flipped.

(Whatever) Builders On Strike - Can't bit on (whatever) this turn. Since it specifically says "this turn" that means to me that even tiles yet to be flipped are affected.

Master Planner - Score 3 fame if you can trace a route between both entraces at the point the card is flipped. This was specifically mentioned in another thread -- if Slot Surplus was previously flipped this turn and you bought and placed a slot that completed a connection and then you flipped this card next, you would get the bonus.

Master Designer - Again, scored based on what your sheet looks like at the time the card is flipped.

Taxes - In another thread Henry specifically stated that if you pulled two of these cards on the same turn your income is still only halved, not quartered.

Good Relations - Affects bidding for the rest of this turn. Based on the Taxes ruling, I'd say that if two of these showed up on the same turn it would still only be two steps, not four.

Visionary - Score 1 fame each time you outbid a player on this turn. Again, if two of these show up it would seem that you'd still only get 1 fame.


David has this correct (and thanks for the nice summary!) with one exception. Good relations do not stack (ie if you flipped 2 good relations on the same turn, you still only need to oberbid by a minimum of 2 spaces - not 4)
-hs
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David Etherton
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Quote:
Quote:
Good Relations - Affects bidding for the rest of this turn. Based on the Taxes ruling, I'd say that if two of these showed up on the same turn it would still only be two steps, not four.


David has this correct (and thanks for the nice summary!) with one exception. Good relations do not stack (ie if you flipped 2 good relations on the same turn, you still only need to oberbid by a minimum of 2 spaces - not 4)
-hs


Isn't that what I said, or am I smoking crack?

Ah, based on what you said in the other thread, I think you meant to say that "Visionary" *does* stack (while I guessed that it does not)

-Dave
 
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Todd Sweet
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etherton wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Good Relations - Affects bidding for the rest of this turn. Based on the Taxes ruling, I'd say that if two of these showed up on the same turn it would still only be two steps, not four.


David has this correct (and thanks for the nice summary!) with one exception. Good relations do not stack (ie if you flipped 2 good relations on the same turn, you still only need to oberbid by a minimum of 2 spaces - not 4)
-hs


Isn't that what I said, or am I smoking crack?

Ah, based on what you said in the other thread, I think you meant to say that "Visionary" *does* stack (while I guessed that it does not)

-Dave


Dave, I think that is what you said
It seems that your summary clears everything up and could even be an "official FAQ"!

I would say the general rule is that event cards DO NOT stack.
 
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Alan Kwan
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I think the reasoning is that, the event cards have different points of reference.

Taxes says that you collect half income. That is relative to your normal income. Thus, with two cards, you still collect half your normal income.

Good Relations says that you overbid by at least 2 spaces. That is relative to the current highest bid. Thus, with two cards, you still overbid by 2 spaces.

Visionary says that you gain 1 Fame. It doesn't say that your Fame "becomes 1 higher than your current Fame". So it is an 'absolute' gain, not something relative to some current parameter. Thus with 2 cards, you gain 1 Fame twice.
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David Etherton
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That's a nice way of describing it, thanks Alan.
 
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