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Lock 'n Load: Band of Heroes» Forums » Rules

Subject: Spotting rss

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Jason Young
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Say a leader is stacked with 3 squads. The leader fails to spot an enemy in LOS. In the next impulse could the top squad (and then each other squad in succession) then make an attempt? And if so, are the attacks resolved separately for the other squads in separate impulses?
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Jonathan Holen
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localyokel wrote:
Say a leader is stacked with 3 squads. The leader fails to spot an enemy in LOS. In the next impulse could the top squad (and then each other squad in succession) then make an attempt? And if so, are the attacks resolved separately for the other squads in separate impulses?
Turn A: Leader attempts to spot, depending on degrading or blocked the spotting rolls needed would be 3 or less (modified by leadership -> 4 or less) or 2 or less (modified by leadership -> 3 or less) for blocking. Failed attempt and he would be marked Ops Complete.

Next, according to your post, you either pass, use those squads in the hex (as pointed out by Kev, however I'm assuming you don't as per your OP, as you want to use them later for more spotting attempts) or activate another hex.

On the next impulse, you would be eligible to attempt another spotting attempt with the top squad (or any squad for that matter), and it would again be 3 or less for degrading or 2 or less for blocked (however, no leadership bonus). If successful, your three squads could fire in THAT impulse, but again no leadership bonus applied due to ops complete.

Also, any units under an ops complete can only fire via opportunity fire, unless it is in the same impulse as the impulse in which they successfully spotted.

Does that answer your question? (Hopefully I got it right too)

Edit: edited for clarity
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Kev.
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jholen wrote:
localyokel wrote:
Say a leader is stacked with 3 squads. The leader fails to spot an enemy in LOS. In the next impulse could the top squad (and then each other squad in succession) then make an attempt? And if so, are the attacks resolved separately for the other squads in separate impulses?
Turn A: Leader attempts to spot, depending on degrading or blocked the spotting rolls needed would be 3 or less (modified by leadership -> 4 or less) or 2 or less (modified by leadership -> 3 or less) for blocking. Failed attempt and he would be marked Ops Complete.

Next, according to your post, you either pass or activate another hex.

On the next impulse, you would be eligible to attempt another spotting attempt with the top squad (or any squad for that matter), and it would again be 3 or less for degrading or 2 or less for blocked (however, no leadership bonus). If successful, your three squads could fire in THAT impulse, but again no leadership bonus applied due to ops complete.

Also, any units under an ops complete can only fire via opportunity fire, unless it is in the same impulse as the impulse in which they successfully spotted.

Does that answer your question? (Hopefully I got it right too)

The LEader may activate the hex he is in, spot and the other units can then conduct actions as well, but it is one spotting attempt per impulse.
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Jonathan Holen
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hipshot wrote:
The LEader may activate the hex he is in, spot and the other units can then conduct actions as well, but it is one spotting attempt per impulse.
Yeah, was just assuming that he didn't use the squads as his post seemed to reflect he was going to use them later to spot attempt.

Good call, sorry Jason if there was any confusion on my part.
 
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Robert Hawkins
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localyokel wrote:
Say a leader is stacked with 3 squads. The leader fails to spot an enemy in LOS. In the next impulse could the top squad (and then each other squad in succession) then make an attempt? And if so, are the attacks resolved separately for the other squads in separate impulses?


Sure. The rules state spotting doesn't require an impulse, but the leader would be considered ops complete if he atempted to spot and failed. Assuming he failed, you could conceivably activate other units or pass. When it's your impulse again, you could attempt to spot with one of the stacked squads (assuming you did not activate it for something previously). If successful, you could then activate the hex and eligible units could group together to fire (i.e., non-ops complete, or otherwise already used units). If the squad failed, ops complete as before.

So, make one spot check at the beginning of your impulse, see what happens, then decide what units to activate.

To answer the second part, if firing in the same impulse the squads could fire together at the same target (there are exceptions in 5.2), or you could fire one squad, then wait for your next impulse to fire another, etc. Of course, upon firing the squad's hex would be spotted as a unit would be marked with a Fired marker...

I think Jonathan has it right.
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Carlos S. Olivares Pérez
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hipshot wrote:
The LEader may activate the hex he is in, spot and the other units can then conduct actions as well, but it is one spotting attempt per impulse.

I think that the correct order would be:
- the Leader make a Spotting Attemp
- you choose a hex to actívate (could be any hex)

As you said, you could make this:
- you actívate the Leader hex
- the Leader make a Spotting Attemp
- the units in the hex may do something
- the units in adjacent hexes may do something

The point is that if you spot with the Leader, he loses his capacity of activate adjacent units.
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Jason Young
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Ok thanks guys. I'm trying to get all this straight in my head and I think it's starting to come together. So the group can still activate together in subsequent impulses even though the leader is ops complete?
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Jonathan Holen
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localyokel wrote:
Ok thanks guys. I'm trying to get all this straight in my head and I think it's starting to come together. So the group can still activate together in subsequent impulses even though the leader is ops complete?
Correct.

I think of it as:

One spotting attempt per impulse.

AND

Able to activate one hex per impulse.

They are really two different things going on. Say you don't spot, maybe that will change which hex you wish to activate/etc.

Check out my Blog - I've posted several scenarios, each with a complete run through, and I know there are some instances of failed spotting attempts where I choose not to activate that hex.

Learning Lock 'n Load: Band of Heroes
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Jason Young
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Does 14 G7 have LOS to 14 d6?
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Jonathan Holen
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localyokel wrote:
Does 14 G7 have LOS to 14 d6?
14G7 to 14D6 does have LOS, however it passes through 1 degrading hex (Light woods, in 14F7).
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Jason Young
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So the silhoutte in 14 F7 is not a problem? If I were to attact, what would the combat modifiers be?
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Jonathan Holen
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localyokel wrote:
So the silhoutte in 14 F7 is not a problem? If I were to attact, what would the combat modifiers be?
The silhouette is of degrading terrain, so it is not a problem. As mentioned before, it does degrade any action taken which passes THROUGH that hex.

Here is a snip of the rules:

10.3 Figuring Line of Sight
There are two types of LOS-affecting terrain; blocking and
degrading (see TEC). Any silhouette of blocking terrain
crossed by a LOS blocks it (except as noted below).
Degrading terrain silhouettes don't block LOS (except as
noted below) but they degrade it.
Subtract one from an
attacker's die roll or add one to a spotter's die roll for
every hex where the LOS cross a silhouette of degrading
terrain. If the LOS passes through more than two such
hexes, it is blocked and no attack or spotting attempt can
be made.


Let's take an example.

Say there is a 2-5-4 Airborne unit with no SWs in 14G7 firing on a Wehrmacht 1-6-4, which is marked "Fired", in the wooden building in 14D6.


Note: Pretend there is a "Fired" marker on top of the Wehrmacht 1-6-4

The DFT (Direct Fire Table) roll would be:

Allies Roll: 2 Firepower (FP) - 1 (Degrading terrain in 14F7) = 1 + 1d6

The Wehrmacht would then roll defense.

Axis Roll: 3 (Wooden Building) + 1d6

You would then compare both, and conduct a damage check if the Attackers (Allies) resulted in a positive number. Lets continue it out.

Allies Roll: 1 + 1d6 (1) = 2
Axis Roll: 3 + 1d6 (1) = 4 - The fire would have no effect.
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Jason Young
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Ok great. Thanks Jonathan. Your assistance is invaluable.

A word about bocages. Say you have a German unit occupying 14 K3 and you move a US unit from 14 L7 to K7 to J7 is the US unit automatically spotted? If so, am I correct in resolving this op fire in hex J7 for the German unit with a 1d6 -1 vs 1d6+3 for the US?
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Jonathan Holen
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localyokel wrote:
Ok great. Thanks Jonathan. Your assistance is invaluable.

A word about bocages. Say you have a German unit occupying 14 K3 and you move a US unit from 14 L7 to K7 to J7 is the US unit automatically spotted? If so, am I correct in resolving this op fire in hex J7 for the German unit with a 1d6 -1 vs 1d6+3 for the US?
Let me grab my TEC.

Ok.. so bocage:

"Units adjacent to bocage hex side MUST BE SPOTTED if the attackers' LOS crosses the bocage hex side. If the Attacker's LOS does NOT cross the bocage hex side, units adjacent to the bocage hex side need not be spotted, unless required by other terrain in hex. Units adjacent to the bocage that receive fire across the bocage hex side receive the TM, AND outgoing fire from units adjacent to the bocage that crosses the bocage hex side receives a -1 modifier for non-ordnance fire, and ordnance receives a +1 on their To Hit dice roll..."

That's all we really need.. I should note this is the Second Edition. Might be differing info in the first edition of which I am not familiar.

Here's the scenario you described.


Note: The counters are "expanded" so really the moved is on top of the 2-5-4 american unit

Because they are marked moved, they are spotted. The Axis have LOS to the Americans and therefore meet the criteria to fire on them 1) Have LOS 2) Firing on a Spotted unit and 3) Within Range (Almost forgot that one!)

Note: If they were not marked "Moved" they would need to be spotted prior to firing

Axis Roll (Attacking): 1 FP + 1 (Moving Target) + 1d6
Allies Roll (Defense): 3 (TM of Bocage) + 1d6
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Jonathan Holen
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Here's a tip for playing.

Write everything out, step by step. It helps solidify the rules as you can read them and then write out exactly, step by step, how the rules read. I think it has really helped me. Here are two pictures of my little notepad that I play with when writing scenarios up. When I'm not posting these, I use d20 to track numbers.

Ie. if a roll is: 1 (Leader) + 1 (moving target) - 1 (degrading) + 3 FP

I'll set a d20 to 4. Then roll my 1d6, and modify the d20 to that number.

Repeat for the defender, add the modifiers, set the d20 at that number. Roll the 1d6, then modify the d20. Then compare BOTH d20s to each other and you'll get the damage check (if required).

Probably would only need to do it for a few scenarios, but is sure does help!



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Keith
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Sorry to dig up a older thread. I just want to make sure I understand and really appreciate all the help people give in these threads.

If the german was on the 2nd Floor @ D6 and fired on G7 would it be -1 to die roll for degrading at F7? Or would they not have LOS at all?

Also a lot of the threads were answered by a user whose replies have been deleted, SJ I think...so its difficult to search older threads for answers. Anyways thanks in advance for the help.
 
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Vance Strickland
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If D6 had a 2nd floor, which it can't because it's only a single hex building, then the LOS would be blocked to G7 because even degrading terrain casts a 1 hex blocking shadow.

Think of it as now you are trying to look through all the leaves and branches instead of just looking past a few tree trunks at ground level.
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Keith
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Ok thank you very much.
 
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