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Sergio Macias
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I know, I know, all terrible puns, but I couldn't help myself

Poor, poor GloomWeaver. He just wants to bring a little gloom and despair to the multiverse. Just a little nice chap trying to leave his mark in the world. Is that too much to ask? It wouldn't seem so.
But no, once more time those pesky little superpowered humans have to oppose him.
Is Gloomy going to go down gently? Well, no, sir, not if Gloomy can do something about it.

And thus, here starts the report of my first session against GloomWeaver, a man... I mean, an entity with a dream.

A couple of days ago I was told how GloomWeaver, despite being a difficulty level 3 villain according to the rulebook, it's really more of a level 1. Having recently purchased the Infernal Relics Expansion, yesterday I decided to play a solo game and see by myself if there was any true to that statement.

I'm not gonna do an extensive and detailed report as I don't have that much of a good memory and I wasn't taking notes during the game (it's hard enough for me to manage three heroes on my own, let alone the environment and villain decks). It'll be more of a general report and my sensations during the game.

I picked three heroes: The Argent Adept, Ra and Visionary.

Ra and Visionary are two old favourites of mine. I chose Ra because of the raw power, and Visionary because of her numerous mind tricks.

It was my first time with The Argent Adept and I picked him because of his support powers and because I wanted to have a go at him and see if he's gonna be a new favourite as well.

The environment: Realm of Discord. It seemed somehow appropriate

My first mistake? Not having a long and hard look at GloomWeaver and The Argent Adept decks before playing.

The game started and pretty soon the villain area was full with cultists, zombies and familiars, all interacting and giving power boosts between them. Ra was pretty soon vodoo’ed (is that even a word or I just made it up? laugh) with one of those pesky pins and taking one irreductible damage at the end of his turn almost since the beginning of the game.

Visionary got a lousy initial hand and didn't do anything really useful for the first few turns, other than using her base power, desperately looking onto her deck for more useful cards against this particular villain.

And The Argent Adept... what to say about the Argent Adept? Well, it was a mess, but completely my fault. I didn't read the cards properly so I put in play the first instrument I got, and started playing harmonies and rhythms before I realize every instrument is completely different, and I didn't have the proper one for the harmonies I wanted to accompany. So for part of the game I was stuck using the base power of The Argent Adept and just performing once whatever I could.

By the time the first relic was put in play I realized it was almost impossible to finish GloomWeaver by killing him directly (his followers won't let you), so I decided to concentrate on the relics while managing somehow his followers. The thing is Argent Adept is a support player and Visionary, although more versatile, is not a heavy hitter, so the only one capable of doing real damage was Ra. I managed to get rid of one of the relics using the force (I am your father, Luke arrrh) and by the time the other two relics came around I had all three of my heroes with a voodoo pin attached to them and in serious need of HPs.

All hope was lost and and then The Argent Adept come through. Man, you can't imagine how much I've learned to love his "Cedistic Dissonant". I put it into play and destroyed one of Adept's instruments to get rid of the second relic. And one round later I used it again to destroy the third relic and win the game at the next start of the villain round.

Final Score:

Visionary: 2hp

Ra: 2hp

The Argent Adept: 3hp

GloomWeaver: 76 hp but defeated.

In conclusion: I have to agree that GloomWeaver is a bit of a pushover. As soon as you get rid of one of his relics he's pretty much done. He's not gonna flip and you only have to be careful of his followers. I also believe the best team against this villain is one comprised of heavy hitters, as GloomWeaver deck is mostly comprised of followers. I think a game with Ra, Tempest and The Wraith would be a cakewalk for the heroes.

My team wasn't really suited for this villain, and I played The Argent Adept badly but despite all that I managed to squeeze a win.
I wasn't very fond of Argent during the game, but I think there is a lot of potential in the character if you stick with him and learn how to use him properly. So, yeah, pretty excited about Argent Adept and not so much about poor, poor Gloomy, the little boy who dared to dream zombie
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Markus
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Agreed, GloomWeaver was the big disappointment of Infernal Relics, which is otherwise such a fine expansion. I have read that he was much more difficult in playtesting but was nerfed down after too many complaints. I'd rather have hard villains, myself. arrrh
 
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Ken Marley
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One of the posters over at the Greater than games forum has started a statistics page for Sentinels, similar to the one done for Arkham Horror.

There is only two months of data so far, but Gloomy is one of the least dangerous villains.

Villain Win rate:

Akash'Bhuta - 13%
Ambuscade - 17%
Gloomweaver - 18%

On the difficult end:

Matriarch - 50%
Plague Rat - 51%
Chairman - 55%

If you want to look at the data posted February 1 look here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqClP82b_XgZdGJK...

If you want to submit data go here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFVreEh...
 
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David Morcerf
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There's always the risk of the card that brings his relics back out of the trash though. If you didn't find Gloomweaver compelling enough, you could try this suggestion from a thread on Gloomweaver
Richard Launius wrote:
When GloomWeaver was first created he was much tougher - in fact too tough, I think he was the toughest of all Villains at one time. Through many play test changes he got easier and easier to defeat, but he can still stand up and take the Heroes down if he enters this plane of existence. I believe the rating is based on earlier plays, but I could be wrong.

If you want to add some teeth back into GloomWeaver, try the following house rules I use for him:

VooDoo Pins: The only hero that can attack a Voodoo Pin is the Hero that it is attached to, and while attached that Hero can attack nothing else other than their Voodoo Pin. Cards that would clear all Villain cards or all cards in play have severe penalties for someone under GloomWeaver's VooDoo Pins. If any VooDoo Pins are cleared by some special Power Card, the Hero(es) they were attached to suffers damage equal to the amount of HP the Pins had remaining.

Zombies: Zombies have (H)+2 Hit points.

These 2 changes alone should make the Hero's battle a lot more challenging.

Keep in mind, this is only for those that feel he is too easy. The VooDoo Pins originally were very vicious and could hold a Hero in check for several turns - same if you use these rules, but He will be much more frightening and thematically I wanted the Heroes to panic and fear the dark magic that he cast on them - this change will do that.

Thanks and I hope you feel as I do that guys from Greater Than Games have brought a fantastic game to the market and one that I truly enjoy and appreciate being part of the design team for Relics.

Enjoy the game, and thanks for playing.

Richard

I really enjoy The Argent. I destroyed 2 of Gloom's relics with Cedistic Dissonant when I fought him, as well. It is so powerful with all of his abilities to manipulate his deck and trash. I find Arcane Cadence so useful.
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Julian Wasson
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I'm intrigued by your claim that it's "almost impossible" to kill Gloomweaver outright. Every game I've played against him, we've murdered him before we even saw his third Relic. With that team maybe you just don't have enough damage? My experiences fighting him have mostly been "Oh hey a follower SPLAT."
 
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Aaron Morgan
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We finished a game against him (5 players) where two heroes had less than four damage apiece at the end.

Legacy - Ra - Expatriette - Unity - Tempest

After an initial beating by the zombies, Legacy kept handing out +1 Damage, Ra got his staff early and took care of any cultists that popped up, E-P got her assault rifle in the first turn and kept zombies supressed, Unity brought out four or five bots and the dino munched on Gloomy, and Tempest alternated between attacking the one relic that came out and topping off HP.

Environment was determined randomly - Tomb of Anubis. Anubis came out twice, and we just ignored him the second time. E-P and Tempest took care of the rest of that deck's cards as they appeared.

During the entire game, one relic, one pin, and one cultist came out. Two copies of Into the Stratosphere used on the card that buffs zombies (there were no zomibes in play at the time) ensured that we had a three-round buffer where Gloomweaver sat there twiddling his thumbs.

I'm sure it was all just a matter of good cards coming up for the heroes and Gloomy's deck having all the powerful stuff at the bottom, but it was a real let-down to walk all over him like that.
 
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Julian Wasson
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The thing about his "powerful stuff" is that it's situationally powerful at best. Even Vast Following, his most potentially scary card, has a chance to fizzle. The first two times I felt the same way as you, but then I looked through his deck and realized that he just isn't very strong. He's trying to do a lot of different things all at once, and his deck isn't big enough to have enough support cards to enable all of his mechanics.
 
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Sergio Macias
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youperguy wrote:

If you want to look at the data posted February 1 look here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqClP82b_XgZdGJK...

If you want to submit data go here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFVreEh...

Will do, thanks
 
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Sergio Macias
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DeMorcerf wrote:
There's always the risk of the card that brings his relics back out of the trash though.


Is there such card? I took a look at his deck afterwards and I don't remember any card that could bring his relics back? His zombies? Sure, but not the relics.

I want to try another couple of rounds with different set of heroes against Gloomweaver before I decide to make any changes, but thanks for the suggestion.
 
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Sergio Macias
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
I'm intrigued by your claim that it's "almost impossible" to kill Gloomweaver outright. Every game I've played against him, we've murdered him before we even saw his third Relic. With that team maybe you just don't have enough damage? My experiences fighting him have mostly been "Oh hey a follower SPLAT."


Yeah, you are right. I think it all comes down to the team. If you don't have a lot of heavy hitters who can deal a lot of damage or pick multiple targets, I believe the best thing to do is to take care of the relics. You don´t even have to worry about Gloomy as he will sit idly there just getting his one card out of the deck every turn.

That's considering Gloomy can't make the relics come back from the trash (if I'm wrong in that respect then it might not be a viable strategy).

Edit for typo.
 
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Julian Wasson
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The card is a one-shot called Vast Following, and he has 3 copies in his deck. It reads: "Shuffle the villain trash and reveal the top H cards. Put any revealed cultists and relics into play. Put the other revealed cards back in the trash. Play the top card of the villain deck."

Again, it's not that strong because if you have more than H cards in the villain trash it can fail to get the Relic, and you are likely to have more than H cards in the trash if it's late enough in the game to be worried about relics coming back. It's just enough to make the "wait for relics and burn them down" strategy somewhat risky. Although the relics have a combined 75HP, so you're really only doing 15 less damage than it would take to kill Gloomweaver himself. And that's assuming he doesn't get lucky and Vast Following one back.
 
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Sergio Macias
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
The card is a one-shot called Vast Following, and he has 3 copies in his deck. It reads: "Shuffle the villain trash and reveal the top H cards. Put any revealed cultists and relics into play. Put the other revealed cards back in the trash. Play the top card of the villain deck."


I swear to God I don't know how I did it but I looked at that card and I read "Put any revealed cultists and zombies into play" blush
 
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Matthew M
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Just spitballing here, but what if instead of the current text of Vast Following, it was changed to:

Quote:
"Shuffle the villain trash and reveal cards until you have H revealed cultists and relics. Put the revealed cultists and relics into play. Put the other revealed cards back in the trash. Play the top card of the villain deck."


So instead of a crap shoot, it's a certainty that cards will come out. And the heroes need to hope they've killed enough Cultists to get them instead of relics.

Would that up the difficulty enough without making it impossible? I too have been looking for a way to make Gloomweaver tougher.

-MMM
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Julian Wasson
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I was thinking of a version of Vast Following that guaranteed a Relic play.

Quote:
Shuffle the villain trash and reveal cards until you reveal a Relic. Put all revealed cultists and Relics into play. If you do not put a Relic into play this way, reveal cards from the top of the villain deck until you reveal a relic. Put it into play and shuffle the villain deck.
 
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