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Thebes: The Tomb Raiders» Forums » Rules

Subject: Thief card: Error in English rules rss

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Garry Lloyd
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I picked up the game this afternoon and reading through the English rules, the description of the Thief Action Card is incorrect. The French and Dutch rules look right but the English text suggests the card plays identically to the Tomb Raider card (search an excavation pile and select a card of your choice). The text should read:

There is one Thief card for each region.

The player shuffles the cards in the specified excavation pile and picks one at random. If the card shows an artifact, the player places the card in front of them; if it is worthless, it is returned to the excavation pile.
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James D
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I'm so keen to get this game but given the lack of info out there I've held off. Is it a straight port of the board game into card form? I love the board game but, well I have the board game!!! I'm hoping that it's different enough to warrant the purchase as it's my wife's favourite game!
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Garry Lloyd
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Sorry, not played it yet but it looks like it plays similarly to the board game but a bit more streamlined. There's no travelling around Europe; you just draft expertise cards from a choice of four face-up (a la Ticket to Ride) paying the cost in time points shown on the card. The time track works the same so the player who has taken least time is the next to play. There are also congresses, exhibitions and museums so you'll see the main elements are there. The excavations look to work differently as excavations of each type have cards added throughout the game, some yielding points and some rubble, so the earlier you tackle an excavation, the fewer cards you get to pick from. Also each player is limited in the number of excavations they can start in each colour. Hope this helps a bit but I'll know more once I've got it to the table.
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James D
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That's great! Thanks for the insight. It does sound like it is the board game in card format! That means it must be a good game!!! Hope you enjoy it. Thanks again.
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Nick Fisk
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garrylloyd wrote:
I picked up the game this afternoon and reading through the English rules, the description of the Thief Action Card is incorrect. The French and Dutch rules look right but the English text suggests the card plays identically to the Tomb Raider card (search an excavation pile and select a card of your choice). The text should read:

There is one Thief card for each region.

The player shuffles the cards in the specified excavation pile and picks one at random. If the card shows an artifact, the player places the card in front of them; if it is worthless, it is returned to the excavation pile.


Yes - I was reading the rules this morning and was going to post the exact same thread.

The Thief is a random draw, the Tomb Raider is a choice.

Do the action cards themselves show the cards different ways up (didn't have time to look through the cards) ?

Also ...

Under "Action Cards" the rules say play a card (which is a separate action) and then it is discarded from the game.

Surely this isn't the case for the cards that give you extra knowledge - They must stay in front of you, otherwise they are useless ?



N.

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Garry Lloyd
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Moviebuffs wrote:


Under "Action Cards" the rules say play a card (which is a separate action) and then it is discarded from the game.

Surely this isn't the case for the cards that give you extra knowledge - They must stay in front of you, otherwise they are useless ?



N.



I think they (assistant cards) are one use only as they are very cheap - 1 week to take the card then 1 week to play. If they stayed in front of you, the cost ought to be similar to the general knowledge cards (5 weeks? from memory).

Turning back to the thief card, I'm no longer convinced the English rules are wrong as the cost is identical to the tomb raider card which is much more powerful. Maybe the card got changed late in the production process. Either that or the cost on the thief card is also wrong.
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Nick Fisk
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garrylloyd wrote:
Moviebuffs wrote:


Under "Action Cards" the rules say play a card (which is a separate action) and then it is discarded from the game.

Surely this isn't the case for the cards that give you extra knowledge - They must stay in front of you, otherwise they are useless ?



N.



I think they (assistant cards) are one use only as they are very cheap - 1 week to take the card then 1 week to play. If they stayed in front of you, the cost ought to be similar to the general knowledge cards (5 weeks? from memory).


Yes, but it's an action to play the card. It's a separate action to go excavating, so they must stick around until at least that point!

Quote:
Turning back to the thief card, I'm no longer convinced the English rules are wrong as the cost is identical to the tomb raider card which is much more powerful. Maybe the card got changed late in the production process. Either that or the cost on the thief card is also wrong.


I'd be tempted to go with the German & French rules, as a "majority of rulebooks say this" option. Otherwise, why have two different cards at all ?



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Garry Lloyd
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I take your point on the Action Cards. We interpreted the Assistant Card as being playable in conjunction with an excavation action at a cost of one extra week. It would be good to get some clarification.

Clarification would also be good on the Thief card. I agree the rules should be different for different card types but the cost associated with the thief card is too high compared with the tomb raider.

In my view, there's also a typo on the box cover as I can't believe this can be played in thirty minutes :-) it took us ninety minutes last night for a three player game.
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James D
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And was it any good?!!!!!
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Garry Lloyd
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For me, the jury's out at the moment. It definitely closely resembles the boardgame but, whereas I was expecting a quicker, more streamlined version, it didn't feel that way to me. It took us 90 minutes and it somewhat outstayed its welcome at that length. I also felt the restocking of the board after each card was taken seemed to take as much time as the player's turn itself. Going through the whole deck of 160-odd cards was logical and you could plan for the end of the game but I'd have liked a bit more uncertainty in what I could achieve by the end of the game (like shuffling a game-end card into the bottom third of the deck).

Overall, the game works and definitely scratches the Thebes itch in cardgame form, but if I was wanting to play a 90-minute archaeology game, I would choose the boardgame over this version. However, I need to play again just to check we weren't playing overly slowly and it could be completed in 45 minutes or so.
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Nick Fisk
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garrylloyd wrote:
Clarification would also be good on the Thief card. I agree the rules should be different for different card types but the cost associated with the thief card is too high compared with the tomb raider.


They definitely have different abilities. If you look closely at the cards, the Thief shows the card backs, while the Tomb Raider shows the card fronts.



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garrylloyd wrote:
For me, the jury's out at the moment. It definitely closely resembles the boardgame but, whereas I was expecting a quicker, more streamlined version, it didn't feel that way to me. It took us 90 minutes and it somewhat outstayed its welcome at that length. I also felt the restocking of the board after each card was taken seemed to take as much time as the player's turn itself. Going through the whole deck of 160-odd cards was logical and you could plan for the end of the game but I'd have liked a bit more uncertainty in what I could achieve by the end of the game (like shuffling a game-end card into the bottom third of the deck).

Overall, the game works and definitely scratches the Thebes itch in cardgame form, but if I was wanting to play a 90-minute archaeology game, I would choose the boardgame over this version. However, I need to play again just to check we weren't playing overly slowly and it could be completed in 45 minutes or so.


And there I was, thinking there is no info on the game yet! Great writeup, thx for the (mini-)review
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Garry Lloyd
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To go with my "mini review" , I've written a mini outline of how the game plays. Hope that gives you a bit more on what the game is all about.
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Nick Fisk
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garrylloyd wrote:
Clarification would also be good on the Thief card. I agree the rules should be different for different card types but the cost associated with the thief card is too high compared with the tomb raider.


Agreed now. The cost of the two cards should not be the same, as one is way more powerful.

Thief: Get a random card, a fair chance that it is dirt (especially as the game goes on);

Tomb Raider: Get the best artifact card in the stack.

Also ... what's that other card that lets you look through a stack? (Edit: Scientist) That also seems overpriced, as all it gives you is info that you get for free with the Tomb Raider, or info that you can figure out by looking round the table (especially late on in the game).


Quote:
In my view, there's also a typo on the box cover as I can't believe this can be played in thirty minutes :-) it took us ninety minutes last night for a three player game.


We played a four-player game in 65 minutes last night. Everyone's first game, so probably playable under an hour if you are all familiar with it.



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I suspect that, since the cost of the two cards are the same, the english rules are correct and the two cards are much the same. NB they're not quite identical - the Thief can choose "one artifact of his choice", while the Tomb Raider can take "any one card they like"; the very minor advantage of the latter being that an Expertise card could be chosen, presumably if there are no artifacts - possibly a wee hat-tip to the Lara Croft franchise?

The different graphics may well be a late change as suggested - using two turns to get a random single card draw which may well be worthless seems a bit of a long shot, even if it came with a low time cost, so it may be that the card wasn't getting chosen enough and the Thief morphed into a near copy of the Tomb Raider.
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Garry Lloyd
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Moviebuffs wrote:

We played a four-player game in 65 minutes last night. Everyone's first game, so probably playable under an hour if you are all familiar with it.


Played a four player game with three people new to the game and it took us about 75 minutes. We got through the deck with just two or three green cards left in just less than an hour and then everyone went excavating and exhibiting until all their excavation permits had been used.

I still think having an end-game card shuffled into the bottom third of the deck is a good idea as people would then be uncertain as to whether they could complete their excavations and might commit to them a bit earlier. As it is, people hold off exhibiting until they've got as much knowledge as they can muster.
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Diego Whitetower
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Have the same doubt with Thief/Tomb Raider...

¿Any clarifications from Queen Games?

About assistant, I think you need to put it in your display before you're going to conduct an excavation. After that, you can use it and it is discarded.

Thanks!
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Juanlu Bermudez
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garrylloyd wrote:
We interpreted the Assistant Card as being playable in conjunction with an excavation action at a cost of one extra week.

We played that way. Seems to be correct to me.

garrylloyd wrote:
Clarification would also be good on the Thief card. I agree the rules should be different for different card types but the cost associated with the thief card is too high compared with the tomb raider.


This puzzled us too.

We may end using a house rule: The Thief lets a player draw Excavation Cards at random. If he gets an Artifact, he keeps drawing cards, untill a worthless Excavation Card appears.
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hemp wrote:
garrylloyd wrote:
Clarification would also be good on the Thief card. I agree the rules should be different for different card types but the cost associated with the thief card is too high compared with the tomb raider.


This puzzled us too.

We may end using a house rule: The Thief lets a player draw Excavation Cards at random. If he gets an Artifact, he keeps drawing cards, untill a worthless Excavation Card appears.


Wouldn't it be more predictable / strategic to say that the thief will keep drawing cards until an Artifact shows up? This way, you always get one random artifact from the stack. Never nothing, but also no chance of finding 5 artifacts by simple luck of the draw.
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Richard Ham
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Breaking news, everyone! I emailed the designer to put the issue of the unbalanced cards to rest, and he just replied:

Peter Prinz wrote:
there is a missprint on the cards.
One of these cards should cost 1 / 1 (Have a quess which one it is :-) )


So things should make quite a bit more sense with this in mind!
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Julius Besser
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Any chance to get those cards reprinted and made available from the publisher? Or is this going to be put into another edition?
 
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No idea (and the designer didn't know either).

It was a quick fix with a sharpie pen for me though
 
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Mark Nicosia
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And, of course, per Murphy's Law, what is the 1 card that they show right on the front of the box, in all it's misprinted glory... shake

I really hope they do offer early buyers the 4 replacement cards some time soon. I don't mind taking a sharpie to it temporarily, but would like the actual correct cards, eventually.
 
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Julius Besser
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I personally will not be getting this game until they correct this card. I have attempted to send a message to Queen and was told only that the game is available. They ignored my actual question about whether they would be correcting this error or reprinting it correctly.
 
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jayelbird wrote:
I personally will not be getting this game until they correct this card. I have attempted to send a message to Queen and was told only that the game is available. They ignored my actual question about whether they would be correcting this error or reprinting it correctly.


At least they replied back to you. I wrote to them last month, and I'm still waiting to here back. I too am going to put off buying it until I know that the cards are fixed. I know that it's not a big deal, but for me to throw down my hard earned money on a game that's not 100% is not going to happen. Plus, it kinda stings that they're not really addressing the issue with us fans. I'm a huge fan of Queen Games, and I'm surprised they're not responding to our questions. It looks like a wonderful game, and I hope they get it all fixed soon.
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