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Subject: turner on a corner rss

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Richard Silver
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I played for the first time a few days ago and made a turn on a corner with a program card on a corner of a converyor belt expecting to be moved one square and turned in the direction on the arrow of that corner. Instead, my robot simply made the right turn and continued turning in place in the direction of the corner arrow and did not move forward as I had expected. (Hopefully my explanation is clear enough that you'll know what I mean).

Turning in place like this does not make sense to me and does not seem to follow the rules which say that all conveyor belts move robots one space forward.

Should my robot have simply turned in place two turns (one for my program card and one for the conveyor belt) or turned as I programmed it, moved one space, and turned the direction of the conveyor belt?

I need to add that my robot was already on a corner and I was attempting to go to another corner. My robot was at Z and attempting to go to Y (both were corners). The X's are conveyor belts. Al the forward movement is from right to left. The direction of my turn and the turns of the corners is actually irrelevant for the rules question I'm asking. (Note: the dashes don't mean anything. They're just for spacing)

---------xxxxxY
--------------Zxxxx

Thanks,
kk
 
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Tommy Malmodin
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I'm not sure I comletely understand what you mean, but....
A corner on a conveyor only turns you if it was the conveyor that moved you into the corner, not if you moved there by a program card.
So in your example you should not have turned by the conveyor but moved one step along it (or two if it was an express).
 
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Mark McEvoy
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koolking wrote:
I played for the first time a few days ago and made a turn on a corner with a program card on a corner of a converyor belt expecting to be moved one square and turned in the direction on the arrow of that corner. Instead, my robot simply made the right turn and continued turning in place in the direction of the corner arrow and did not move forward as I had expected. (Hopefully my explanation is clear enough that you'll know what I mean).



From the decription, it sounds like you weren't on a conveyor corner at all, but you were on a gear. On several boards (Island, Gearbox, Exchange) there are gears placed at the intersection of two conveyor belts, placed to 'logically' turn a front-facing robot once at the end of the incoming belt to align him with the outgoing belt. But these are just gears - they are not a part of the conveyor system and a robot on a gear won't leave said gear until a movement card is played. All a gear does is spin.


From your description of events, it really sounds like you were on one of those. If you started your 'board elemets move' part of a phase on a turn segment of a belt, then you should have been moved but *not* turned by the board elements (unless the _next_ conveyor segment was a turn, in which case you'd have been moved and turned by board elements).
 
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Richard Silver
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Hey, Adam,

That's just it. When we played, it didn't move my robot to the next conveyor belt as I thought it would. That's what really confused me. My robot simply turned in place two turns and because of that it ended up in a pit during my program sequence.

kk
 
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Richard Silver
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When I started my turn I was on a conveyor belt corner with a curved arrow. I intentionionally stayed there to take advantage of the belt movement. That is why I used a turn card as my first program card. As I understand it, my robot sould have turned via my program card then when the belt moved, my robot should have move one space forward and turned in the direction on the arrow that the next belt corner was turning. The way we played it, the conveyor belt simply turned me but it didn't move me. That put me in an entirely different position which eventually ended with my robot going into a pit.

Richard
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Sounds like someone somehow goofed the board elements move segment of the rules (or possibly thought the corner was a gear and not a conveyor-turn). Unless there was something preventing a conveyor belt move (like a robot on the first free space at the end of the belt and a series of robots forced to not-move as a result of the traffic jam).

If you started a phase on a conveyor belt, and all you did with your program card was turn, you should have been dragged along by the conveyor belt (and if the next segment was a turn, then yes, should also have been turned by that segment).
 
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Richard Silver
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I think that's probably what happened. The person I played with likely confused the corner conveyor belt arrow with a gear.

Thanks,
kk
 
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Richard Silver
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Good grief, I was on a conveyor belt corner. Very simple. How in the world could I forget that or even be confused about that? And besides, I remember the situation quite clearly because the way my robot was moved went counter to the logical way a conveyor belt would move and it resulted in him going inot a pit a little further along in that program sequence. And besides that, I was never confused about where my robot started, just about how it was moved.

What happened was this: The other player made an honest mistake and confused the movement of a gear with a conveyor belt corner. I seem to recall him mentioning something about not playing for awhile and he could have forgotten/confused one part of the rules with another. It was just a mistake and it happens to all of us.

kk
 
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James Perry
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Ok, I'm taking a stab at this one....


Let's use a diagram to see if I understand what happened

OOOOOOOO
<<<\OOOO
OOO\<<<<
OOOOOOOO

Assuming now that O's are empty spaces or at least things we don't care about, and the '<' are slow conveyor belts moving in that direction. The '' is the turn (in this case it turns up and then to the left).


I think what you described was this, You had a move card that moved you onto the conveyor belt at the corner Such as a move one when starting at the X in this diagram (facing the up toward belt).

OOOOOOOO
<<<\OOOO
OOO\<<<<
OOOXOOOO
(facing up)

What should happen then is, you move onto the belt and then board elements will move you forward one, and turn you to the left, resulting in this layout:

OOOOOOOO
<<<XOOOO
OOO\<<<<
OOOOOOOO
(facing left)



If the board setup was similar to this

OOOOOOOO
<<<\OOOO
OOO\<<<<
OOOOXOOO
(facing up)

and you played a move one, you would move onto the belt then board elements move you to the left one and turn to so that you are facing the right, as follows:

OOOOOOOO
<<<\OOOO
OOOX<<<<
OOOOOOOO
(facing right)



If you had neither of these setups, post a small diagram and label it so that we may see what was going on.



[EDIT]
(I saw your post above....)

If the setup was

OOOOOOOO
<<<\OOOO
OOO\X<<<
OOOOOOOO
(facing left)

and you moved one, then when board elements move you would move one up and turn facing down resulting in:

OOOOOOOO
<<<XOOOO
OOO\<<<<
OOOOOOOO
(facing down)

 
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Ken F
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I was there at that game with Richard and Adam. The board was simple, it only had conveyor belts and no gears. The action/reaction Richard is referring to is conveyor belt turns and what happens when you move onto one instead of being moved onto one. My apologies to Richard if I have stated this incorrectly.

Oh, how I hate RoboRally.
 
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Alexander Rosenthal
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The problem with conveyors is that people tend to look at the wrong one. You are not moved according to the conveyor belt you are on when the belt begins moving, you are moved according to the belt you END on. So if you start on a turn space that moves into a straight space, you'll just go straight. It's confusing, because you would expect you move according to the space you start on, but that's how it goes.
 
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Gareth Taylor
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It may help to remember that no matter what sort of of conveyor it is, straight or corner, you always end up pointing the same way relative to the conveyor arrowhead.

For example, if you start on a turny conveyor with your robot facing away from the conveyor arrowhead, and if you then shunt on to another turny conveyor, then you end up facing away from the second square's arrowhead.

This is just the same as saying that you rotate according to the square you're landing on, but often less confusing. For example, if you have two blue turny conveyors on consecutive squares, you don't have to bother carefully moving through the intermediate square - you just place your robot on the second square pointing in the same relative direction as it started (assuming no other interactions).
 
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Richard Silver
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This is getting interesting and fun (and more confusing, too).

First of all, in the turn I am talking about I did not move onto a conveyor belt. I was already there. I was already on a corner conveyor belt with a curved arrow. Here is the postion at the start of the turn (the dashes don't mean anything, they are just there for formatting purposes in this message--hopefully the formatting will come out correctly since "Y" and "Z" should be directly opposite each other):


-----xxxxxxxxxxY
-------------------ZXXXXXXXXXX

The "X's" represent a conveyor belt moving from right to left as you look at your screen. "Z" represents my robot's beginning location on that conveyor belt on that turn and "Y" is where I wanted to go.

My robot started on "Z" which was a corner space with a curved arrow. Since I was already there, that curved arrow shouldn't have affected me. I played a turn card as my first card in my program sequence. As I understand it, my robot should have turned in the direction of my program card and the conveyor belt should have moved me to "Y" ("Y" was another curved arrow which should have turned my robot in that direction).

The way it was played, my program card turned my robot and then "Z" turned my robot again and he stayed in place and didn't move.

kk
 
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James Perry
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Ok. You understood how it was supposed to work correctly.

OOOOOOO
<<<\OOO
OOOX<<<
OOOOOOO
(facing left)

This was the setup (or similar) the robot X is sitting on a curved conveyor belt. If you played a turn left card, your robot would turn to the left and be facing down in the diagram. When the board elements move you will be moved up one space and turned to the left. Resulting in you facing to the right, as such:

OOOOOOO
<<<XOOO
OOO\<<<
OOOOOOO
(facing right)

The board elements phase of a turn is often the most complex and easiest to mess up part of RoboRally. Especially with the pushers, crushers, and gears. Add in the belts and you can make a mistake very quickly.

One additional thing that could add a whole additional level of complexity is the option cards. Someone with a tractor beam or repulsor beam could mess you up a lot from quite a distance away.
 
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Richard Silver
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ideogram wrote:

-----xxxxxxxxxxY
---------------ZXXXXXXXXXX
--------------P
Do you recall if the "P" is the pit your robot ended up in? That's the way I recall it. If this is what happened, I think one of two things happened, either :

(a) You stepped off of Z going down and ended up next to P.
(b) You turned on Z, turned the opposite direction from what you expected going onto Y, ended up facing down, and played a forward 2 card ending up next to P.

I think (b) is more likely.



The pit I ended up in was from conveyor belt "Y" actually. I didn't put it in where the dashes were simply because I was trying to understand how the conveyor belt was working. Where "P" would be the pit it would look something like:

-----xxxxxxxxxxY
--------PPPPPPPZXXXXXXXXXX

I had my program cards organized so that I would be facing away from the pit when I eventually stepped off the conveyor belt but because of the way it was done when we played (my robot was turned in place by the conveyor belt in the opposite direction I thought it was going to turn and didn't move forward one space as I thought it was going to move), I was facing the pit when I eventually stepped off.

Richard
 
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Brian Newman
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Before you plan your turn, you could ask the person explaining the game, "Just to be clear, if I were to simply turn in place, how would the conveyor move me differently than if I moved forward onto it?" It's not like telegraphing the fact that you're going to be turning is going to affect other people's moves.
 
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Richard Silver
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It isn't supposed to turn you in place like that and I wasn't all that confused about how conveyor belts worked until after this happened (for awhile I was confused about which way was which in turning but I got used to that fairly quickly).
 
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Mark McEvoy
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ideogram wrote:
(I tried to draw an ASCII diagram but the "<" arrows get eaten as tags so I gave up.) The board's name is CROSS.


Yeah, I ran into that problem in an attempted earlier reply and abandoned the post.

Though I find the best way to cobble together images for demonstration is the use of emoticon dice or scrabbles.


A conveyor belt on a 5x5 board section might be represented something like:



11111
11111
11111
11111
11111

Then a brief description "One continous conveyor belt entering from left, turning right, left, right and exiting the bottom"
 
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Richard Silver
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My memory certainly can be faulty but it is crystal clear for that incident.
 
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