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Subject: Can you choose not to access one or more cards on a server? rss

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Ted Swalwell
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Apologies if this is out there somewhere - my searches failed to find it.

When you've made a successful run, and approach a server - can you choose which cards you access on that server, and in which order?

The FAQ simply says 'Access cards' - which doesn't indicate whether there's a choice or not. You can choose to access none - and jack out before reaching the server - but that's not the same.

We had this were a runner wanted to access a few cards (to trash them), but not others (a suspected trap).
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Steven Tu
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savantt wrote:
Apologies if this is out there somewhere - my searches failed to find it.

When you've made a successful run, and approach a server - can you choose which cards you access on that server, and in which order?

The FAQ simply says 'Access cards' - which doesn't indicate whether there's a choice or not. You can choose to access none - and jack out before reaching the server - but that's not the same.

We had this were a runner wanted to access a few cards (to trash them), but not others (a suspected trap).


You can't choose whether you access a card or not, you MUST access everything, there's no choice.

Rulebook, page 18:

Quote:
•Remote Server: The Runner accesses all cards in the server.

Quote:
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one
at a time in any order he likes.
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David Jensen
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It should be noted, that even though you may seemingly have the option to access them in any order; all the effects still take place.

... I would love it you accessed the Agenda before Ash, unfortunate Ash's effect still takes place.
 
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Mark Gerrits
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notyetsuperman wrote:
It should be noted, that even though you may seemingly have the option to access them in any order; all the effects still take place.

... I would love it you accessed the Agenda before Ash, unfortunate Ash's effect still takes place.

That's because Ash triggers before you access the cards.
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Ony Moose
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Ash has to be ressed before it works, though.

BankJob lets you choose not to access any cards if you want to. As does Account Siphon/Vamp.

The order can matter, for deciding what to trash if you have limited credits. I'm not sure how R&D works with multiple cards, do you HAVE to access them in top->bottom order, or can you choose the order of access before you look at them? (EG look at 3 first, then 2 then top?)
 
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Steven Tu
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notyetsuperman wrote:
It should be noted, that even though you may seemingly have the option to access them in any order; all the effects still take place.

... I would love it you accessed the Agenda before Ash, unfortunate Ash's effect still takes place.


Actually, false

ASH Needs to be rezzed to take effect. So...


4.1. Paid abilities can be used.
4.2. Jack out or continue.
4.3. Paid abilities may be used
cards may be rezzed.
4.4. Run is successful. Trigger abilities if any.
4.5. Access cards.
5. Run ends
6. Run is unsuccessful. Trigger abilities if any.



If the runner declares that he's not jacking out at 4.2, and you didn't rez ASH at 4.3, then the runner accesses all the cards at 4.5
 
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Micheal Keane
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Kandiru wrote:
The order can matter, for deciding what to trash if you have limited credits. I'm not sure how R&D works with multiple cards, do you HAVE to access them in top->bottom order, or can you choose the order of access before you look at them? (EG look at 3 first, then 2 then top?)


You have to acccess R&D in order though you may intermingle accessing that with accessing upgrades on R&D.

Another point of distinction: Maker's Eye requires you to access additional cards from R&D. However, Medium gives you the *option* of accessing additional cards.

So if the first card you access R&D is a Snare! and you're afraid of being flatlined, you can choose not to use Medium's additional accesses.
 
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Steven Tu
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ffaristocrat wrote:
Kandiru wrote:
The order can matter, for deciding what to trash if you have limited credits. I'm not sure how R&D works with multiple cards, do you HAVE to access them in top->bottom order, or can you choose the order of access before you look at them? (EG look at 3 first, then 2 then top?)


You have to acccess R&D in order though you may intermingle accessing that with accessing upgrades on R&D.

Another point of distinction: Maker's Eye requires you to access additional cards from R&D. However, Medium gives you the *option* of accessing additional cards.

So if the first card you access R&D is a Snare! and you're afraid of being flatlined, you can choose not to use Medium's additional accesses.


From the FAQ:

Quote:
The Runner may choose how many additional cards he is
accessing, but this decision occurs before he accesses the
first card (at the beginning of step 4.5 of a run). With 3 virus
counters on Medium, the Runner must access at least one card
and may access up to 3.


So yes you can access up to the max with the medium, but you have to choose how many before you start accessing. You can't go a bit and then decide to stop.
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David Jensen
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Thank you for the clarification.

I've I understood correctly, I've I've accessed a remote server with Melange and Ash neither of which is rezzed (silly example) but only have 3 credits.

If I turn up, Melange first - I decide to trash. -1
Then see Ash and don't have enough credits to trash that.
or vice versa Ash first, trash -3, then can't trash Melange.

Or! Am I allowed to see Ash, see Melange; then decide which to trash?
 
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Jon Day
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Sadly, you look at one, decide, then look at the next one. so your last example would not be allowed.
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Steven Tu
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jond wrote:
Sadly, you look at one, decide, then look at the next one. so your last example would not be allowed.


Instinctively I'd say you could choose which one to trash after seeing them all, but I can't find a rule to support nor deny that. Sooooo... Someone please ask Lukas
 
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Adrian Breuch
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If accessing multiple cards, accessing one card must be resolved before acessing the the next one.

If the card wasn't already rezed then you will see the trashcost druing the access of the card.

So Jond ist right.

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Jeremy Larner
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Tuism wrote:
jond wrote:
Sadly, you look at one, decide, then look at the next one. so your last example would not be allowed.


Instinctively I'd say you could choose which one to trash after seeing them all, but I can't find a rule to support nor deny that. Sooooo... Someone please ask Lukas


Jond is correct. Accessing cards takes place sequentially, and all choices which are made on access (such as whether on not to trash, whether to pay additional costs to steal, etc.) must be resolved before accessing the next card.
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David Jensen
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Not to be snide; but sincere; are you all answering that becuase that's the way OCTGN is set up - or is there a rule for that? I'm okay with order when it comes to Archives and R&D; but remote servers are a different story.

And I appreciate your answers. Does any one understand why I might question this differently?
 
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Mark Gerrits
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notyetsuperman wrote:
Not to be snide; but sincere; are you all answering that becuase that's the way OCTGN is set up - or is there a rule for that? I'm okay with order when it comes to Archives and R&D; but remote servers are a different story.

And I appreciate your answers. Does any one understand why I might question this differently?

From the rules:
Quote:
Accessing Multiple Cards

When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one
at a time in any order he likes. For example, the Runner may
access a card from HQ, then an upgrade installed in the root of
HQ, and then another card from HQ, if he has the ability to
do so.

When accessing multiple cards from R&D, the Runner must
draw them in order from the top of the deck, and must return
any cards not scored or trashed in reverse order, so as to
preserve their positions in R&D.

The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay
to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card.
If the Runner
scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he
immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access
more cards.
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Adrian Breuch
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notyetsuperman wrote:
Not to be snide; but sincere; are you all answering that becuase that's the way OCTGN is set up - or is there a rule for that? I'm okay with order when it comes to Archives and R&D; but remote servers are a different story.

And I appreciate your answers. Does any one understand why I might question this differently?

I never played online...
But by the way:
Core Rulebook page 18
Acessing Multiple Cards
Quote:
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one
at a time in any order he likes. For example, the Runner may
access a card from HQ, then an upgrade installed in the root of
HQ, and then another card from HQ, if he has the ability to
do so.
When accessing multiple cards from R&D, the Runner must
draw them in order from the top of the deck, and must return
any cards not scored or trashed in reverse order, so as to
preserve their positions in R&D.
The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay
to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card. If the Runner
scores an agenda that gives him seven or more points, he
immediately wins the game, even if he would otherwise access
more cards.


Edit: double (or tripple?) ninjaed....
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Jeff Lindsay
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Quote:
Accessing: The act of a Runner looking at a Corporation card as part of a successful run, which he can then trash or steal.


Quote:
The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card.


Quote:
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one at a time in any order he likes.


Further the rules/FAQ give specifics on how accessing is handled for HQ,R&D, Archives and Remotes.

To sum up
R&D: Access top card and any cards in its root. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards must then be returned to R&D in the same order they started in. If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in this process, even interweaving access to those between access to cards from R&D (e.g. access R&D card 1, access card in root, access R&D card 2).

HQ: Access one random card from HQ and any cards in its root. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards must be returned to HQ. If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in the process.

Archives: Access all cards in Archives and any cards in its root. When the Runner accesses Archives he turns all cards face up and then chooses to access them one at a time in any order. (Note: The runner must access all the cards in Archives, but since cards in Archives cannot be trashed typically this means any agendas are stolen and other cards are just returned.) If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in the process.

Remote: Access all cards in the server. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards are returned to the server in the same position they were taken from.
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Steven Tu
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Hrrrmmm wrote:
Quote:
Accessing: The act of a Runner looking at a Corporation card as part of a successful run, which he can then trash or steal.


Quote:
The Runner must fully resolve his access to a card (steal it, pay to trash it, etc.) before accessing the next card.


Quote:
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one at a time in any order he likes.


Further the rules/FAQ give specifics on how accessing is handled for HQ,R&D, Archives and Remotes.

To sum up
R&D: Access top card and any cards in its root. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards must then be returned to R&D in the same order they started in. If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in this process, even interweaving access to those between access to cards from R&D (e.g. access R&D card 1, access card in root, access R&D card 2).

HQ: Access one random card from HQ and any cards in its root. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards must be returned to HQ. If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in the process.

Archives: Access all cards in Archives and any cards in its root. When the Runner accesses Archives he turns all cards face up and then chooses to access them one at a time in any order. (Note: The runner must access all the cards in Archives, but since cards in Archives cannot be trashed typically this means any agendas are stolen and other cards are just returned.) If there are cards in the root the Runner can access those at any time in the process.

Remote: Access all cards in the server. If the Runner is able to access multiple cards they resolve access to those cards one at a time. Any unstolen or untrashed cards are returned to the server in the same position they were taken from.


Wait, where are you drawing these from? There are no direct quotes as far as I can find that says directly that a remote access is sequential and one at a time. I saw that R&D was specified as one at a time and sequential, that access is one at a time, but never explicitly that remote cards can only be accessed one at time.

I may be wrong about this reading, but I'm just raising that it may not be gospel.
 
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Adrian Breuch
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Rules about accessing can still be found on page 18.
And the Access Multiple Cards rule Access one at a time is for all servers, remote and central.
 
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Jeff Lindsay
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The quoted text is from the rulebook. The part about access to multiple cards being resolved one at a time is directly underneath the heading "Accessing Multiple Cards" on page 18.

If there is a remote server with 3 cards in it (e.g. asset, upgrade, upgrade), and you successfully run on that server you will access all the cards in the server. That means you have access to multiple cards. You resolve access to those cards one at a time. If all the cards were unrezzed you would turn them over one at a time, in any order you like, fully resolving access to the currently chosen card before turning over the next. Any cards that were not trashed or stolen would then be returned to their original state in the same position in the server they started in.
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Ted Swalwell
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Well - my original question was answered a while back. Thanks!
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David Jensen
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deleted entry here until I get further clarification.
---

I've found that if I'm wrong, its best to delete the post than add to the confusion.
 
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Adrian Breuch
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notyetsuperman wrote:
From the rules:
When you access:
Remote Server:
The Runner Access all cards in the server.

Accessing Multiple Cards:
When accessing multiple cards, the Runner accesses them one at a time in any order he likes. ...

____

The remainder of the text is examples and none of those examples pertain to remote servers.

Going back to the original rules under Remote Server; they are all accessed and there is no indication of order what so ever.

So, when you access all the remote server cards you flip them all up; then choose which to access and trash first. In short, you choose to resolve your accessed cards after they are all exposed.

___
So, next time you access an Ash and Melange with only three credits, you'll be able to trash the Ash =)

Just.. Why?
I mean... you just quoted the right parts:
Remote Server: Access all cards in the remote server.
Accessing Multiple Cards: Access them one by one...

I know that there is no example explicit example for Remote Server, but why does that mean in your interpretation fo the rules that accessing multiple cards in a remote server dosen't count for the "Accessing Multiple Cards" rule?

Or are you just thinking that looking at the cards is not part of the access?
Quote:
3. Acess Phase
After the Runner has passed all of the ice protecting the
attacked server, he has one final opportunity to jack out. If he
chooses to continue, the Corporation has one final opportunity
to rez cards. After rezzing cards, the run is considered to be
successful andthe Runner accesses the Corporation’s cards
by looking at them.

That's looking at a face-down card is in my thinking part of the accessing... which follows the rule access one card by one.
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