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Subject: Battles that in the end just didn't matter. (See OP for specifics.) rss

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Moshe Callen
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One of the notable things about the US's War of 1812 is that its most notable land victory for the Americans, at the Battle of New Orleans, occurred after the treaty ending the war had already been signed in Paris. Word of the treaty simply arrived too late.

What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
whac3 wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?


Any battle won by Germany in WWII.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
grouchysmurf wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?


Any battle won by Germany in WWII.

Is it that simple though? Do you think the invasion of Poland really had no impact on the end of the war? I don't.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Thermopylae. Athens was sacked anyway, and Salamis was the decisive battle of the war.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
grouchysmurf wrote:

Any battle won by Germany in WWII.


I would think all struggles by the German army caused the landscape of the later soviet bloc. If they had been steam rolled by the allies there could have been an immediate war against the USSR or some countries would have remained independent.

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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Rob Doupe wrote:
Thermopylae. Athens was sacked anyway, and Salamis was the decisive battle of the war.
Thermopylae bought time for the Greeks to gther their armies. The time it bought very much mattered.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
whac3 wrote:
One of the notable things about the US's War of 1812 is that its most notable land victory for the Americans, at the Battle of New Orleans, occurred after the treaty ending the war had already been signed in Paris. Word of the treaty simply arrived too late.

What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?


The treaty had been signed, but not yet ratified by the time the battle occurred, so technically, the parties were still in a state of war.

The interesting "what if" is: What if Jackson lost the battle of New Orleans? Would the US Senate have still ratified the treaty? And then if Britain insisted on holding on to New Orleans, what impact would it have had on American expansion into the Louisiana Purchase lands?
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Battle of Toulouse in the war of the sixth coalition, fought 4 days after Napoleon's abdication...
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
My suspicion is that in most wars, many lives are lost after the outcome has long been determined. I think of the last battles of World War I after the Germans had already looked to a peace settlement. I know people at the time doubted the Germans sincerity, but surely intelligence reports indicated that the German people were ready for peace. There were food riots and much disruption fostered by the German communists that showed that Germany was ready for collapse.

And then there was Korea. The war was prosecuted for ages while nations argued about such trivia as seating arrangements! (Or was the Viet Nam?) I suppose one called it brinksmanship back then...

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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Made no difference? You can bet if the British had held New Orleans that a piece of paper wouldn't have made them evacuate.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
No, I believe we call that sort of thing 'brinkmanship' now. Back then we just called it 'stupid'.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
gap10 wrote:
No, I believe we call that sort of thing 'brinkmanship' now. Back then we just called it 'stupid'.
Haha!
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Wild Tchoup wrote:
Peleliu


That's the first one that popped into my mind. Once FDR settled on MacArthur's Philippines plan over Nimitz's Formosa plan Peleliu became unnecessary strategically.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Eldard wrote:
Wild Tchoup wrote:
Peleliu


That's the first one that popped into my mind. Once FDR settled on MacArthur's Philippines plan over Nimitz's Formosa plan Peleliu became unnecessary strategically.
I didn`t realise. One of my friends survived Peleliu.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
The Battle of Palmito Ranch, also known as the Battle of Palmito Hill and the Battle of Palmetto Ranch, was fought on May 12–13, 1865, shortly after the end of the American Civil War. It was the last major clash of arms of the war. Many historians, as well as the Official Record of the Civil War,[1] consider the Battle of Palmito Ranch to be a post-Civil War encounter, with the Battle of Columbus in April being the recognized last battle of the Civil War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmito_Ranch
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
whac3 wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?

All these futile little battles you guys fight with and occasionally win against The Wife over what game you pretty-pretty-please may buy, may I missus, please?

In the end, she still carries your pair around in her purse.

Am I right, 'girls'?
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Moshe Callen
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
uweareuter wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?

All these futile little battles you guys fight with and occasionally win against The Wife over what game you pretty-pretty-please may buy, may I missus, please?

In the end, she still carries yours around in her purse.

Am I right, 'girls'?

You picked the wrong guy for that. I play board games including wargames with my wife.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Kluvon wrote:
My suspicion is that in most wars, many lives are lost after the outcome has long been determined. I think of the last battles of World War I after the Germans had already looked to a peace settlement. I know people at the time doubted the Germans sincerity, but surely intelligence reports indicated that the German people were ready for peace. There were food riots and much disruption fostered by the German communists that showed that Germany was ready for collapse.

And then there was Korea. The war was prosecuted for ages while nations argued about such trivia as seating arrangements! (Or was the Viet Nam?) I suppose one called it brinksmanship back then...


Yes, though they may not have constituted famous battles, on some parts of the western front in WW1 the allies were attacking right up until, literally, the last minute. I believe the French dated all their resulting gravestones to the day before, in a belated display of, perhaps, shame. Other allied graves mark the date of death as 11/11/18. Perhaps such attacks were meant to enhance some officers' post war careers.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
uweareuter wrote:
whac3 wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?

All these futile little battles you guys fight with and occasionally win against The Wife over what game you pretty-pretty-please may buy, may I missus, please?

In the end, she still carries your pair around in her purse.

Am I right, 'girls'?


You are clearly doing something wrong.
Now what you must do is get on her nerves so she'll tel you to buy games, just to get some peace and quiet.
After thet she can hardly complain about you playing as the purchase was her idea in the first place.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
stpark wrote:
Yes, though they may not have constituted famous battles, on some parts of the western front in WW1 the allies were attacking right up until, literally, the last minute. I believe the French dated all their resulting gravestones to the day before, in a belated display of, perhaps, shame. Other allied graves mark the date of death as 11/11/18. Perhaps such attacks were meant to enhance some officers' post war careers.


From Joe Persico`s book "11th Month, 11th Day, 11th Hour"

"According to the most conservative estimates, during the last day of the war ... all sides on the western front suffered 10,944 casualties, of which 2,738 were deaths, more than the average daily casualties throughout the war."
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
The ultimate and obvious victories that didn't matter were king Pyrrhus' victories over the Romans at Heraclea in 280BC and at Asculum in 279BC.

It was these battles that gave rise to the term 'Pyrrhic victory'.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Of course this thread is all a matter of perspective. Every battle, no matter what the outcome or impact it had on the overall strategic situation, mattered to someone.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
IMHO, the Battle of Hamburguer Hill fought between US Army and its ARVN allied forces against the NVA in May 10-20 of 1969.

I am in no way questioning the courage nor dedication of the US troops committed to it (I met once a gentleman whom was there); although it was a clear victory with the US capturing that hill and inflicting heavy casualties on the enemy, it did not change the outcome of that war (after its capture the US abandoned the hill, then the NVA came back).

Furthermore I understand such a battle provoked an outcry to stop US troops involvement in ground operations in 'Nam; after that the brunt of the fighting was increasingly shifted to the ARVN.

Jumval

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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
I'd say that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria in '45 was absolutely unnecessary as far as the Second WW was concerned, the Japanese goose was already cooked and everybody knew it. That operation had more to do with post-was geo-political arrangements and considering what happened later in China and Korea, turned out to be a devastatingly adroit move that we're still paying for.
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Re: Battles that in the end just didn't matter.
Osprey wrote:
Of course this thread is all a matter of perspective. Every battle, no matter what the outcome or impact it had on the overall strategic situation, mattered to someone.

Of course, but the OP's body is more specific than the Subject:
OP wrote:
What other famous battles made no difference in ho the war was ended?
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