Dispatch Dave
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INTRO: Skip to below the pics for the actual question!
So, I'm making (or, at least, planning) a 3D Descent board out of Hirst Arts (HA) bricks. Unlike the original Descent board project by Bruce, I'd like to have walls for my tiles (as opposed to just floor spaces). However, in my various mock-ups, I've run into a problem of matter occupying the same space. That is, if I add walls around the exterior of the tiles, then certain tiles will not be able to be put together. Pictures for examples!

Two tiles (8A and 24A) laid out with bricks, you can see the gap caused by the walls.


Picture of the tiles in the quest book.


Two other tiles (1A and 19A) laid out with bricks. Notice the transitional gap.


Above tiles from the quest book.



As you can see in the images above, I am likely to end up with two extra squares between a lot of transitions. My question to you Geeks is, do you think this will change the gameplay/tactics of the game; if so, how significantly do you think the change will be?
 
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David Munch
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No significance at all.

But why do you want walls around out door tiles? You should put bushes instead, or trees.
 
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Raphael Pigulla
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Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
No significance at all.

Actually, I would argue that this change does have a rather significant impact.

Take picture #1 for instance. Without the additional 2x1-tile, the tile with the campfire can only be blocked off with a 2x2 or 2x3 monster. With the additional tile, it can be blocked by a 1x2 or two 1x1 monsters.

Keep in mind that most quests are a race against time. Even without the effect described above, adding two or three additional tiles might turn out to put the heroes at a disadvantage.

Edit: Actually, in picture #1 you can use smaller monsters to block off the hallway no matter what. But imagine the situation where two tiles like the campfire one are directly connected.
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Darren Nakamura
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Another thing to note is that there are maps that butt up wall-to-wall, meaning you would have to make changes to other parts of the map in order to make them fit, because you can't just put a connecter between them.
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Dispatch Dave
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Thain Esh Kelch wrote:

But why do you want walls around out door tiles? You should put bushes instead, or trees.


I wouldn't necessarily put walls all around the outdoor sections. Bits of ruined wall and undergrowth/foliage would occupy that space.

Dexter345 wrote:
Another thing to note is that there are maps that butt up wall-to-wall, meaning you would have to make changes to other parts of the map in order to make them fit, because you can't just put a connecter between them.


Agreed. These are just samples of the problem, but you have hit the nail on the head. By adding the extra spaces between connectors (essentially making the tabs themselves an additional square) most tiles can line up with each other.

n3rd wrote:
Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
No significance at all.

Actually, I would argue that this change does have a rather significant impact.

Take picture #1 for instance. Without the additional 2x1-tile, the tile with the campfire can only be blocked off with a 2x2 or 2x3 monster. With the additional tile, it can be blocked by a 1x2 or two 1x1 monsters.

Keep in mind that most quests are a race against time. Even without the effect described above, adding two or three additional tiles might turn out to put the heroes at a disadvantage.

Edit: Actually, in picture #1 you can use smaller monsters to block off the hallway no matter what. But imagine the situation where two tiles like the campfire one are directly connected.


This is the kind of thing I'm wondering about. It will increase the number of squares a hero has to cross to accomplish their goal, will affect blocking areas in and out (less important if you use "hard" corners/no diagonal movement on corners).

Thanks for the response so far!
-Dave
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Would it be possible to have sections of the wall removable? That way you can take them out if you have to place it right against another tile, or leave it in if it's not a problem.
 
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Dispatch Dave
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Sethala wrote:
Would it be possible to have sections of the wall removable? That way you can take them out if you have to place it right against another tile, or leave it in if it's not a problem.


Possible, yes, but not necessarily desirable. Imagine, if you will, two rooms next to each other. You would have to leave out the wall between the two rooms, creating the confusion of one large room. ALso, I dislike detachable walls, but had considered it.

-Dave
 
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Justin B
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Is it possible to make the walls paper-thin with a nice image on both sides? Trees, bushes, walls, lamps, and so forth. You could make them a bit taller and there would be no issues with collisions. Indexed card-stock should be sturdy enough for the job.

Edit: I realized that you will also have to make a support structure to place beneath the tile to have walls on both sides. This could be as simple as a piece of Styrofoam that is large enough.
 
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Dispatch Dave
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Mercuric wrote:
Is it possible to make the walls paper-thin with a nice image on both sides? Trees, bushes, walls, lamps, and so forth. You could make them a bit taller and there would be no issues with collisions. Indexed card-stock should be sturdy enough for the job.

Edit: I realized that you will also have to make a support structure to place beneath the tile to have walls on both sides. This could be as simple as a piece of Styrofoam that is large enough.


I had given voice to this thought over on the HA board I have a thread at (y'know, tap all resources and all). It is possible, likely very simple, but unappealing (to me, at least). The whole idea is to create a 3d dungeon. Cardboard/index card walls would only extend the 2d metaphor.


It's the same reason I'm a Hirst Arts addict, and not a terrainclips fan.
Thanks for the thought, though! I like those brains warm... and thinkin'....

-Dave
 
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Michael Wheal
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You could go the route of making the squares 1.5 inch each.. That way, you can place 1/2 inch walls on the tiles (on the black border lines) instead of next to them, you'd be making oversized copies of the tiles.

Everything would still match up perfectly. Figures would be spaced a little further apart, but not radically so.


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Dispatch Dave
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MWAlbion wrote:
You could go the route of making the squares 1.5 inch each.. That way, you can place 1/2 inch walls on the tiles (on the black border lines) instead of next to them, you'd be making oversized copies of the tiles.

Everything would still match up perfectly. Figures would be spaced a little further apart, but not radically so.




An excellent thought. I currently do not have any of the 1.5" molds, but that's not a terrible issue. I had given passing thought to using 1" squares in the middle bits, and using 1.5" squares for any "wall square."

I will give this idea more thought. Thanks!
-Dave
 
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Tom H
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dispatchdave wrote:
I had given passing thought to using 1" squares in the middle bits, and using 1.5" squares for any "wall square."

wow You just blew my Line Of Sight fuse.
 
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Dispatch Dave
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Terah wrote:
dispatchdave wrote:
I had given passing thought to using 1" squares in the middle bits, and using 1.5" squares for any "wall square."

wow You just blew my Line Of Sight fuse.


Oh, yeah... LOS.

I suppose if one used 1.5" tiles all over, LOS will remain the same, and the figure/hero would have slightly less room on a wall square (1"x1.5" on a wall, as opposed to 1.5"x1.5" in a center/non-wall square).

I still think this will leave 1" gaps between a lot of rooms.

It's looking like additional squares will be the way to go; I think I'll mock up some tiles and playtest the extra squares this weekend.

-Dave
 
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Stephen Williams
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dispatchdave wrote:
I had given passing thought to using 1" squares in the middle bits, and using 1.5" squares for any "wall square."


I assume you mean 1"x1.5" rectangles for any "wall space," otherwise the outer edge of each tile would be out of sync with the rest of it. Two "wall spaces" would align with three "non-wall" spaces.

And then there's the LoS thing. =P

Having played other games on a 1.5" grid where the minis were originally scaled for a 1" grid, I have to say it doesn't look out of place at all. In fact, it's quite handy as it gives those few "wide" minis (*coughcoughrazorwingscough*) the extra bit of room they need.
 
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Dispatch Dave
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Stewi wrote:
dispatchdave wrote:
I had given passing thought to using 1" squares in the middle bits, and using 1.5" squares for any "wall square."


I assume you mean 1"x1.5" rectangles for any "wall space," otherwise the outer edge of each tile would be out of sync with the rest of it. Two "wall spaces" would align with three "non-wall" spaces.

And then there's the LoS thing. =P

Having played other games on a 1.5" grid where the minis were originally scaled for a 1" grid, I have to say it doesn't look out of place at all. In fact, it's quite handy as it gives those few "wide" minis (*coughcoughrazorwingscough*) the extra bit of room they need.


You are correct, I just failed my communication roll... And I don't think there's a brick of that description (which isn't to say it couldn't be made). I agree on the more room being nice for mini's, but you can run into issues of storing the whole thing when not in use. Switching to 1.5" squares for everything more than doubles (if I mathed right) the footprint of your dungeon/board.

-Dave
 
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