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Subject: Games Workshop and their trademark claim on "space marine" rss

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David Simpson
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Discussing the recent development of Games Workshop's claim on the trademark of the term "space marine"

http://youtu.be/jIQ2BBVN1-U
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Roger Brandon
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It's stuff like that which makes me disgusted with a company and refuse to buy anything from them.
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Sam Carroll
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Carl Marl
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This is part of a bigger problem of patent trolling and trademark bullying. Patents and trademarks are given out too easily for generic concepts and then these companies throw their weight around. GW has been particularly zealous in defending their "rights".
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Lucius Cornelius
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We need some real Marine volunteers to kick them into Space. whistle
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Osprey
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Great Video. This needed to be said.....again! I will never buy any of their stuff. There are alternatives and game shops and resellers should focus more on stocking and selling other games and removing the GW stuff from their shelves. I know of no other game company that acts like the political entity that GW is trying to become. There are one or two that have sort of headed in that direction and the result for them was not good. This subject is popping up more and more and unless GW changes their ways they are in for a letdown.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention that Princes Ryan's Space Marines has been around longer than GW titles. They may want to look into Fantasy Flight's use of the term in some of their games as well.

Trying to copyright "Space Marines".....what a load, or as an overseas gamer once wrote, "a bag of D".
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K G
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This has made me so sad I may need a Kleenex. (I mean tissue.)
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Aaron Morgan
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Osprey wrote:
Trying to copyright "Space Marines"


Don't confuse Trademark and Copyright. They are two very different things.
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Jeff K
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usrlocal wrote:
I wonder if they also claim sole ownership of the term 'corporate dickheads'.


Sadly, it would seem the answer is no. There is no shortage of companies lined up to claim that particular distinction.

But personally, I am looking forward to the wargame subdomain pulling together and everybody changing their name to Space Marine in solidarity! Down with the man!
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ICONOCLAST

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sullafelix wrote:
We need some real Marine™ volunteers to kick them into Space™. whistle


Fixed it for ya... laugh
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Greg S
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dsknighthawk wrote:
Discussing the recent development of Games Workshop's claim on the trademark of the term "space marine"

http://youtu.be/jIQ2BBVN1-U


Great video, Dave! I agree with you 100%

There are MANY alternatives out there if you are interested in playing this type of miniatures game.

All the best to you,
Greg
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Mike zebrowski
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Osprey wrote:
There are alternatives and game shops and resellers should focus more on stocking and selling other games and removing the GW stuff from their shelves.


You are certainly free with other folks' money. Stores will stock what sells. GW sells and sells well.

At my store we have 8 times more space dedicated to Board Games than we do GW (and we are well stocked on GW) and we sell 8 times as much GW as all board games combined. Working out the numbers, each square foot of GW brings in 64 times more revenue than board games.

You know what we don't sell? We don't sell Dungeons and Dragons. Our local market decided that they rather play Pathfinder and our sales reflect it. As we rarely sold any D&D 4th edition, we clearance priced our remaining stock and no longer carry it.

Mike Z
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I hate to even bring this up, but ... why is this in the wargame section?
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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medlinke wrote:
I hate to even bring this up, but ... why is this in the wargame section?

I assume because GW does mostly miniatures wargames.

As for the subject of the thread, I'd like to hear the copyright holder of the movie Alien comment n this claim.
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K G
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usrlocal wrote:
I wonder if they also claim sole ownership of the term 'corporate dickheads'.


This summer, Peter and I will be doing standup comedy in the Catskills. They DO still have the Borscht Belt, don`t they?
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"L'état, c'est moi."
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Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
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Moved to general gaming.
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Aaron Morgan
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whac3 wrote:
As for the subject of the thread, I'd like to hear the copyright holder of the movie Alien comment n this claim.


There were no Space Marines in Alien, and in the sequel, they were known as Colonial Marines.

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Keegan Fink
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Quote:
The earliest known use of the term "space marine" was by Bob Olsen in his short story "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" (Amazing Stories, Volume 7, Number 8, November 1932)

Quote:
Olsen published a novella sequel four years later, "The Space Marines and the Slavers" (Amazing Stories, Volume 10, Number 13, December 1936)


Hey Games-Workshop, this seems like a moot point.

shake
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Henry Rodriguez
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A quick analysis of this situation shows the weak point of GW's position.

First though, one must understand that despite the popular uses of "Space Marine" in works of fiction, what we are looking at here is the use of "Space Marine" as a mark that associates a product with a manufacturer. Those other popular uses may inform the strength of the trademark, but if they were not used as trademarks (or have stopped being used as trademarks) then they do not prohibit GW from claiming rights to "Space Marine" as a "unique" source-of-origin symbol.

"Space Marine" as a trademark for literary works is a tough sell for GW. One cannot obtain a registration for the title of a single literary work. One can initiate a trademark infringement claim based on one's common law rights to the title of a single literary work, however this has its challenges.

The common law views such titles as descriptive marks (and some as generic), requiring the petitioner to prove the acquisition of secondary meaning in its title (i.e. in the instant case, that "Space Marine" is so well known that consumers associate it as the work of GW). Without secondary meaning, enforcement is extremely unlikely. With secondary meaning, then likelihood of confusion must still be established by the petitioner.

Furthermore, in looking over GW's black Library publications, I only saw two books that contained "Space Marine" in their titles. One was just "Space Marine" and the other contained the terms as part of a larger title. This is helpful because it shows that "Space Marine" is not the title of a series. If GW had used it as a series title (like perhaps it does with Horus Heresy and certainly does with its Warhammer 40,000 logo), then its rights to the term would be stronger.

A declaratory judgment may be an option in this type of situation where one party alleges rights but has not sued the "infringer" yet.

Furthermore, though I have little knowledge about Amazon's IP policies, a frivolous infringement claim used to sever a business relationship could be sufficient to base a claim against GW for tortious interference with a contract. Further research is needed.

PS - This response has been cross-posted on a few relevant threads.

Henry Rodriguez, Esq.
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ROGER DEAL
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I hear GW uses the word "THE" in some of there products. Therefore, I have changed the name of my new game from "The Dungeon & Dragons Small World Edition Of Lord Of The Rings" to "A Dungeon & Dragons Small World Edition Of Lord Of the Rings".

oops..I mean Lord Of A Ring. Sorry GW.
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Chris
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Is the actual C&D letter posted anywhere? I am curious to read GW's claim in their own words to see what leg they think they have to stand on.
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Jacco Versteeg
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As far as I know, there wasn't any C&D letter. And the weakness in these cases is money, as in GW has lots, and other people don't. And GW can afford to drag out a court case and spend money on it, whereas most other people can't. So even when they lose the court case, the person brave enough to take them on will be bankrupted. Simply bullying tactics - and annoyingly, they work.
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Brian Lucid
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I used to enjoy Games Workshop. After going through what everyone else does on the 2nd or 3d year into the hobby, I would just like to say for the record...we hates GW, we hates it precious!

On a side note...a buddy was really into GW and we bought Armies together and played a lot. He decides he doesn't want to keep up with the "collectible miniature" nonsense so switches to Flames of War. Orders a few books and describles the force he wants to build - Bersaglieri's. Cool, I'm hooked again, bought a GI Mech force and German Grenadiers, painted them. I'm all set. Contact buddy, he sold his stuff to pay for bass guitar lessons.

I plan on taking him fishing for my birthday, precious. Maybe I'll bring all of those lead miniatures with me and see if he can float with them.









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Roger Brandon
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Lugburz wrote:
Quote:
The earliest known use of the term "space marine" was by Bob Olsen in his short story "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" (Amazing Stories, Volume 7, Number 8, November 1932)

Quote:
Olsen published a novella sequel four years later, "The Space Marines and the Slavers" (Amazing Stories, Volume 10, Number 13, December 1936)


Hey Games-Workshop, this seems like a moot point.

shake


I'm sure GW would be happy to sue them posthumously.
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David Simpson
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