GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
7,522 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
22 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Star Wars: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: The OBSELETE Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ OBSELETE rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tiny Grimes

Huntington Beach
California
msg tools
mb
The Official FFG FAQ is AVAILABLE!!


http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Star-Wars-LCG/...

I will update this FAQ later to comment on what the official rulings are.

The Smuggler's Den and SoCal Star Wars LCG League Rulings

Well with so much debate on various forums regarding a number of interactions and us hosting a league and impending tournament, we've been forced to make a number of rulings without the help of an FAQ. Feel free to disregard these rulings but they seem like a reasonable place for the community to start from before the FAQ shows up. We have not covered these on the podcast because these are not official rules, but interpretations that we are forced to make. As such, of course disregard this list in its entirety as soon as the FAQ drops! And remember these are the interpretations of the cast of The Smuggler's Den and not the opinions of FFG.

1. Protect and Shielding (Specifically Jedi Guardian) - A character cannot accept more damage than their damage capacity allows, even if shielded. Thus if a Jedi Guardian has a shield and 3 damage is incoming, only 2 damage may go to the Guardian (less if the unit is damaged). Shields on the Jedi Guardian can be used to absorb damage from other sources.

Personally I do not think this is the intent, but the wording seems clear on damage capacity. I think this ruling will actually stand in the FAQ.

2. Trench Run - Rebel Assault cannot be used on Trench Run, I received this ruling from FFG. Unopposed damage, Target of Opportunity, and Wookiee Navigator can all be used when targeting Trench Run.

I actually think this will not be how the FAQ rules these interactions, I think only unopposed damage will count. However a very active playtester is adamant that these do work so that's how we are ruling them.

3. Refresh Phase - The "Any effect with the text "after you refresh" can be used after completing this step" is moved to after step 2 is completed instead of after step 1 is completed. This solves the issue of placing shields with cards like Fleeing the Empire and having them removed in step 2.

4. Tie Attack Squadron - If a Twist of Fate is played by the owner of Tie Attack Squadron, a fate card was indeed played and it gains its icon and targeted strike. (Of course targeted strike is a keyword which is defined as attacking only.)

5. Secrets of Yavin 4 - Each objective can only be engaged once. Therefore, if Secrets of Yavin 4 is attacked its response cannot be triggered as it has already been engaged. Moreover, Secrets of Yavin 4's interrupt can only be triggered once. If another objective is attacked and Secrets of Yavin 4 triggers its interrupt, the original objective has not yet been engaged (and may be engaged again) since that attempt was interrupted.

6. Targeted Strike + Shii-Cho Training - These two abilities are mutually exclusive. You may not spread out damage over multiple targets if using targeted strike.

7. Grand Moff Tarkin - The moment Tarkin enters play his passive ability is in effect. Therefore, if an objective has 4 damage on it and its damage capacity was previously 5, the objective immediately blows up.

8. Darth Vader's reaction and cancelled events - If an event is played and cancelled, Darth Vader can still trigger his reaction.

This is one I'm really hoping FFG changes but the wording seems clear for now.




5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chouffot Rémy
France
Saint-Maurice
FRANCE
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Quote:
3. Refresh Phase - The "Any effect with the text "after you refresh" can be used after completing this step" is moved to after step 2 is completed instead of after step 1 is completed. This solves the issue of placing shields with cards like Fleeing the Empire and having them removed in step 2.

Coubld be the step 3 too, no? In order to activate the after refresh's Reaction of the new objectives?

Quote:
8. Darth Vader's reaction and cancelled events - If an event is played and cancelled, Darth Vader can still trigger his reaction.


Actually, only effects of Event card are canceled, not the Event card itself. So the text in the FAQ would be :

Quote:
8. Darth Vader's reaction and cancelled effects' event - If an event is played and its effects are cancelled, Darth Vader can still trigger his reaction.

Good job by the way!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Niranth Banks
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
flag msg tools
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
#4, did you mean to word it that narrowly? Or would any Fate Card played by the owner in an edge battle with a Twist of Fate count?

#5, why does the Golden Rule not override the "Each Objective can be Engaged Once" rule?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiny Grimes

Huntington Beach
California
msg tools
mb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
I decided not to attempt to read ffgs mind on the refresh step. Moving it to after step 3 changes how the game is currently played, whereas moving it to after step 2 fixes a broken interaction. I decided to err on the side of caution and just fix the broken stuff. I have no idea where FFG will actually put it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiny Grimes

Huntington Beach
California
msg tools
mb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
#4 Any fate card counts. I may have to reword that one slightly. Thanks for the heads up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Di Toro
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
TinyGrimes wrote:

1. Protect and Shielding (Specifically Jedi Guardian) - A character cannot accept more damage than their damage capacity allows, even if shielded. Thus if a Jedi Guardian has a shield and 3 damage is incoming, only 2 damage may go to the Guardian (less if the unit is damaged). Shields on the Jedi Guardian can be used to absorb damage from other sources.

Personally I do not think this is the intent, but the wording seems clear on damage capacity. I think this ruling will actually stand in the FAQ.


This is the only one I have a strong disagreement with, and as I've not seen discussion of it elsewhere I'll chime in here.

I find it interesting that you specify how clear the wording on "damage capacity" is when how damage is applied is quite as clear in the paragraph before it and what to do with excess damage is as clear in the same paragraph.

Quote:

Damage
When a card receives damage, place a number of damage tokens on it, with a total value equal to the amount of damage received.

When a card has a number of damage tokens with value equal to or greater than it's damage capacity, it is immediately destroyed. Damage in excess of it's damage capacity is ignored


Damage is applied as a lump sum, excess is ignored. Damage is also applied per strike not as a cumulative over the encounter. So lets run down some scenarios.

1) Obi-Wan Kenobi and Guardian of Peace (not Jedi Guardian, another issue with this FAQ entry) attack a DS objective. DS declares Coruscant Defense Fleet as a defender and wins the edge. CDF strikes and targets Obi-Wan, collects 5 tokens and places the Damage on Obi-Wan. LS lets GoP use it's protection and takes the damage, all 5 tokens.

2) OWK and GoP attack and Vader, Palpatine, and Rancor are declared defenders and DS again wins the Edge. Vader strikes first and again targets OWK. LS player invokes protect, and then uses the shield to cancel one damage. GoP strikes and targets Palpatine. Rancor Strikes and targets OWK, LS invokes protect and take all 3 damage.

I can't see a justification for this to work any other way.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Gerrits
Belgium
Leuven
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
karrde wrote:
TinyGrimes wrote:

1. Protect and Shielding (Specifically Jedi Guardian) - A character cannot accept more damage than their damage capacity allows, even if shielded. Thus if a Jedi Guardian has a shield and 3 damage is incoming, only 2 damage may go to the Guardian (less if the unit is damaged). Shields on the Jedi Guardian can be used to absorb damage from other sources.

Personally I do not think this is the intent, but the wording seems clear on damage capacity. I think this ruling will actually stand in the FAQ.


This is the only one I have a strong disagreement with, and as I've not seen discussion of it elsewhere I'll chime in here.

I find it interesting that you specify how clear the wording on "damage capacity" is when how damage is applied is quite as clear in the paragraph before it and what to do with excess damage is as clear in the same paragraph.

Quote:

Damage
When a card receives damage, place a number of damage tokens on it, with a total value equal to the amount of damage received.

When a card has a number of damage tokens with value equal to or greater than it's damage capacity, it is immediately destroyed. Damage in excess of it's damage capacity is ignored


Damage is applied as a lump sum, excess is ignored. Damage is also applied per strike not as a cumulative over the encounter. So lets run down some scenarios.

1) Obi-Wan Kenobi and Guardian of Peace (not Jedi Guardian, another issue with this FAQ entry) attack a DS objective. DS declares Coruscant Defense Fleet as a defender and wins the edge. CDF strikes and targets Obi-Wan, collects 5 tokens and places the Damage on Obi-Wan. LS lets GoP use it's protection and takes the damage, all 5 tokens.

2) OWK and GoP attack and Vader, Palpatine, and Rancor are declared defenders and DS again wins the Edge. Vader strikes first and again targets OWK. LS player invokes protect, and then uses the shield to cancel one damage. GoP strikes and targets Palpatine. Rancor Strikes and targets OWK, LS invokes protect and take all 3 damage.

I can't see a justification for this to work any other way.

Read the Protect section of the rules on page 25.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geki
United States
Providence
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
I strongly disagree with 5, for non-new reasons.

Moreover, regarding "2", I think that unopposed damage is indistinguishable from target of opportunity damage in its nature.

The only way I could see a faq going in a different way would be if they ruled that "any non-icon effect on any-card cannot affect the Death Star", quite different from the original wording.

Best
Geki
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Micheal Keane
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Pictured: Rags Raggerson, successful businesscat
Avatar
mb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Have you submitted these questions to FFG for an actual ruling?

I submit questions for Netrunner all the time and usually get a response within a day or so.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Casey Hughes
United States
West Des Moines
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
ffaristocrat wrote:
Have you submitted these questions to FFG for an actual ruling?

I submit questions for Netrunner all the time and usually get a response within a day or so.


Everyone of these questions has been submitted, most likely multiple times, and the latest response, if any, has been the official FAQ is forthcoming.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Hanson
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Nice, it needed to be done.

While you are at it you should include a ruling on the Heroic Sacrifice + X-Wing Escort interaction:

In general I'm fine with everything, though Trench Run needs a lot of clarification work, as I don't understand why it would allow Target of Opportunity to work (ToO only damages engaged objective, Death Star is NOT an objective).

Also, make more podcasts! MOAR PODCASTS!!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Di Toro
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Runkst wrote:

Read the Protect section of the rules on page 25.


I looked for protect in the index before I posted that and didn't see it the first time.

Arrrg, that's so contradictory to the damage rules. Given that I would agree that it can't work with more than the existing damage capacity of the Protect unit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Perez
United States
Terrell
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Hansolo88 wrote:
Nice, it needed to be done.

In general I'm fine with everything, though Trench Run needs a lot of clarification work, as I don't understand why it would allow Target of Opportunity to work (ToO only damages engaged objective, Death Star is NOT an objective).


Blast icons only damage an engaged objective. Unopposed damage only damages an engaged objective. Both of those and resolving fate cards are all processes of resolving an engagement (all framework events or sub-steps thereof). I don't see how you make any distinction among them for the purpose of resolving an engagement.

But indeed, either Trench Run needs a lot of clarification or the sequence of resolving an engagement does.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Perez
United States
Terrell
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Niranth wrote:
#5, why does the Golden Rule not override the "Each Objective can be Engaged Once" rule?


I believe this notion is supported by RAW, and TSoY4 would allow itself to be engaged a second time through usage of its interrupt ability. It may not be designers' intent though. Whatever the case, I hope the FAQ actually clarifies the rules rather than simply delivering a ruling by fiat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Niranth Banks
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
flag msg tools
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Thank you TinyGrimes for taking the time to collate the biggest issues, even though we may not agree on your interpretations. I have two questions resulting from SoY4; at what point is an objective engaged and specifically for SoY4, is the wording enough to override the basic rule.

Until FFG releases a FAQ, we all have to negotiate how these work within our play groups.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Brennan
Australia
St Ives, Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
This one at least I can confidently nail down.

The objective (A) is engaged at the point that attackers are declared (ie not in step 1 of combat, but in step 2).

At that point Yavin 4's interrupt may kick in. Those attackers now whack Yavin 4 instead.

The FAQ part is whether Yavin 4's interrupt changes which objective was engaged. The understanding I've been given is that the opponent's choice is the one that matters - he chose objective A so therefore objective A can't be engaged again this turn, meaning Yavin 4 is free to be engaged with a subsequent attack this turn.

Meaning Yavin 4's interrupt *can* be triggered if it's already been engaged this turn.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiny Grimes

Huntington Beach
California
msg tools
mb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
PBrennan wrote:
This one at least I can confidently nail down.

The objective (A) is engaged at the point that attackers are declared (ie not in step 1 of combat, but in step 2).

At that point Yavin 4's interrupt may kick in. Those attackers now whack Yavin 4 instead.

The FAQ part is whether Yavin 4's interrupt changes which objective was engaged. The understanding I've been given is that the opponent's choice is the one that matters - he chose objective A so therefore objective A can't be engaged again this turn, meaning Yavin 4 is free to be engaged with a subsequent attack this turn.

Meaning Yavin 4's interrupt *can* be triggered if it's already been engaged this turn.


According what I see in the rule book the Objective is engaged in step 1 of combat, since that's where it says objectives can be engaged once per conflict phase. I'm not sure where you are reading something different.

Then regarding the interrupt it's a judgment call that only the FAQ will be able to settle. Since the interrupt is interrupting the engagement it looks to me like Yavin 4 has now been engaged but not the original objective. My goal is not to enter a debate regarding something with no solution. Rather I'm providing our interpretations of the rules trying to follow the rule books as closely as possible. Feel free to disagree but please start a new thread if you are planning to rehash the debate that's already been performed with no clear resolution.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drew Dallas
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Tiny, Patrick is one of the playtesters, I don't think he is trying to rehash the debate, just relaying how they handled it during playtest I assume.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Perez
United States
Terrell
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
PBrennan wrote:
The FAQ part is whether Yavin 4's interrupt changes which objective was engaged. The understanding I've been given is that the opponent's choice is the one that matters - he chose objective A so therefore objective A can't be engaged again this turn


The Secret of Yavin 4's ability is: Interrupt: When 1 of your other objectives is engaged, your opponent engages this objective instead. (Limit once per turn.)

Doesn't TSoY4's interrupt alter which objective is engaged? The text of the card says "instead." I would interpret that as meaning -- opponent chooses objective A to engage. TSoY4 ability kicks in, TSoY4 is the engaged objective instead of objective A, meaning objective A is no longer considered engaged.


The second part of the discussion would go more like this:
Opponent engages TSoY4.
Resolve engagement.

Opponent chooses to engage objective A.
LS player chooses to use interrupt from TSoY4.
TSoY4 is engaged instead of objective A, and even though it was already engaged once during the same turn, because the card text takes precedence over the rule that an objective can only be engaged once per turn, TSoY4 can "force" itself to be engaged a second time (aka The Golden Rule).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Brennan
Australia
St Ives, Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
Darksbane wrote:
Tiny, Patrick is one of the playtesters, I don't think he is trying to rehash the debate, just relaying how they handled it during playtest I assume.
Correct. Also, I can neither confirm nor deny that I have seen any alleged FAQ that may or may not be under review and which may or may not be coming out "shortly". But I know what I'd be doing if I wanted to be as close to the FAQ as possible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Di Toro
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
PBrennan wrote:
This one at least I can confidently nail down.

The objective (A) is engaged at the point that attackers are declared (ie not in step 1 of combat, but in step 2).

At that point Yavin 4's interrupt may kick in. Those attackers now whack Yavin 4 instead.


The rest of this for me is whatever, it's not clear based on the wording but I'll take it. Why is it only triggered at Step two of the combat though? That implies that the FAQ is going to be rewording the card.

I'll admit that the intent was probably at step 2 of combat, but the wording is step 1.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergio Perez
United States
Terrell
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: The Smuggler's Den's unofficial FAQ
karrde wrote:
Why is it only triggered at Step two of the combat though? That implies that the FAQ is going to be rewording the card.


I suspect the card wording will not be altered, but the FAQ will alter the framework of the engagement such that an objective will not be considered "engaged" until attackers are declared. The way it is now, the rules say "at least one unit must be declared as an attacker." However, that step comes after and seemingly separate from choosing the objective to engage. Who knows though? The rules team could choose any number of aspects to focus on in that regard. I would think they'd want to keep card errata to a minimum though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.