Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » General

Subject: Where are the Scenarios? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Ok Folks,

The Descent Campaign Editor has been downloaded over 1300 times since its release on Oct. 22nd (and I have the bandwidth bills to prove it).

There are only a small handful of Quests posted here on the 'geek and on the FFG website (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/descent_quests.html).

Why are people not posting more quests?

Mike Z
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike Zebrowski wrote:

Why are people not posting more quests?



The program is an excellent tool, however by itself I don't feel fully equipped to start making scenarios worthy of posting online. As I don't really have time to fully playtest a scenario I might create I feel it would be good to have some guidelines for scenario creation.

Were any guidelines used to create the existing scenarios? I'm imagining that at least some point system could be used that balances the existing monsters in the scenario with the number of starting conquest tokens and the types of treasure available (both chests and gold piles and potions).

This would provide a good starting point - and then these can be adjusted one way or another according to specifics of the dungeon. A dungeon with a lot of winding passage ways, providing the Overlord with ample spawning opportunities, should offer more to the heroes in the way of treasure and starting Conquest tokens. A dungeon that is very small or straightforward might offer less treasure or be packed to the brim with creatures to compensate.

The current quests are there to build off of, but to get really creative yet maintain some semblance of balance I think something to start from would be helpful.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Only tangentially related, but the apparent spamming of ratings on the scenarios might be discouraging. I suggest making it mandatory that someone include a name and/or that someone on the site tracks IPs to prevent that from continuing.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Octavian wrote:
Only tangentially related, but the apparent spamming of ratings on the scenarios might be discouraging. I suggest making it mandatory that someone include a name and/or that someone on the site tracks IPs to prevent that from continuing.

-MMM


It will be taken care of this week.

Mike Z
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Octavian wrote:
The program is an excellent tool, however by itself I don't feel fully equipped to start making scenarios worthy of posting online. As I don't really have time to fully playtest a scenario I might create I feel it would be good to have some guidelines for scenario creation.


There is a playtest section on the FFG site for just this reason.

Quote:
Were any guidelines used to create the existing scenarios?


Any and all guidelines were in Kevin's head.

Quote:
I'm imagining that at least some point system could be used that balances the existing monsters in the scenario with the number of starting conquest tokens and the types of treasure available (both chests and gold piles and potions).


I think that such a system would be extremely counter-productive. The number of monsters and treasure chests has less of an impact on the game than the placement of the monsters and treasure chests.

For example, a gold treasure chest in Area 1 will completely alter the balance of a scenario while a copper chest in the final area is practically worthless. A beastman in the first Area will have a bigger impact than a beastman in the final area.

Any point system would need to take placement into consideration, which ends up turning the system into an extremly complicated affair that would require a spreadsheet to manage. It would be a large amount of work to get a rough guess of the number of Conquest tokens that the Heroes start with.

It would be far easier to just take a guess based on intuition.

It would also be difficult to take into consideration the various special effects that can be added to a scenario.

For example, in one of the scenarios that I wrote, there is an Area of complete darkness and the players can not make an attack beyond range 5 while the Monsters are not hindered at all. This is balanced by having all of the monsters in the area stunned when the Heroes manage to turn the lights back on.

Another room in the same scenario is trapped. As soon as the Heroes open the door to the area, the two Hellhounds in it get a free attack. The attack is strong enough to kill off a Hero or two, depending who is standing close to the door. That trap alone is likely worth 1-2 conquest points.

Mike Z
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Summerfield
United States
Redlands
California
flag msg tools
mb
I decided to download the scenario editor only to see what the contents were. I had a small interest to make at least one scenario, but I was unfamiliar with the rules, so I decided to just stay with doom. Sorry about that, but I was really only curious. A fine editor though, If I ever do get descent (although many people I know would rather stick to doom) I would be happy to contribute. Might I suggest a randomization playtesting simulator?

You know, a program that playtests the scenario in say chances of victory in out of 100 games with marine, and invader cards and orders not included.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Summerfield
United States
Redlands
California
flag msg tools
mb
All I know is that it would take a very long time with lots of patience to make one. Of course without cards to make it more distracting, it could be done a bit faster than with all of the cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
You are talking about over a thousand hours of work and most likely a couple thousand hours of work.

1) The program would need to be redone so that the computer knows where the walls, doors, pits, staircases, ect.. are located. Right now, they are simply graphic files. All the computer knows is where the graphic is located on the screen and how it is rotated.

2) Need to write path-finding software so that the heroes and monsters know where they can go.

3) Need to write AI software that takes into account 24 different monsters and 20 different heroes. Each monster has different tactics and they have to work together as a team as well.

4) Need to test each scenario in real life to see if the results match up. After all, it wouldn't be worth much if the results calculated by the program don't match those in real life. Figuring out why the results don't match would be extremely time-consuming.

Tell you what. Pay me $120,000 and I'll take a year off from work and do this.

Mike Z
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike Zebrowski wrote:
Tell you what. Pay me $120,000 and I'll take a year off from work and do this.

Mike Z



I'll do it for $110,000

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
MrSkeletor wrote:
Mike: is there any plans that you know of for FFG to put up a database for DOOM quests as well?


Yes, when the expansion comes out.

The reason is that the scenarios have to be PDF files. Right now, my Doom editor doesn't output PDFs. Version 2.0 will produce PDFs and be upgraded to match the quality of the Descent version. I'll be releasing that editor when the expansion comes out. (Mostly because I don't have much time to work on the graphics right now and I don't want to do it twice)

Mike Z

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bobb Beauchamp
United States
Volo
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike Zebrowski wrote:
You are talking about over a thousand hours of work and most likely a couple thousand hours of work.

1) The program would need to be redone so that the computer knows where the walls, doors, pits, staircases, ect.. are located. Right now, they are simply graphic files. All the computer knows is where the graphic is located on the screen and how it is rotated.

2) Need to write path-finding software so that the heroes and monsters know where they can go.

3) Need to write AI software that takes into account 24 different monsters and 20 different heroes. Each monster has different tactics and they have to work together as a team as well.

4) Need to test each scenario in real life to see if the results match up. After all, it wouldn't be worth much if the results calculated by the program don't match those in real life. Figuring out why the results don't match would be extremely time-consuming.

Tell you what. Pay me $120,000 and I'll take a year off from work and do this.

Mike Z


You'd be working on the cheap at that rate, Mike. If you could do all that for $120,000, I think you'd have to be some kind of programming god. Or independantly rich, and just love programming. The AI alone would take forever.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Corey Konieczka
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike Zebrowski wrote:
You are talking about over a thousand hours of work and most likely a couple thousand hours of work.

2) Need to write path-finding software so that the heroes and monsters know where they can go.

Mike Z


Ah that's easy Mike. All you need to do is if the opponent is to the right, move right, or to the top, move up ect.

Of course thats probably why all my bot's walk into walls, but at least it's only 4 lines of code to write
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
kingbobb wrote:

You'd be working on the cheap at that rate, Mike. If you could do all that for $120,000, I think you'd have to be some kind of programming god. Or independantly rich, and just love programming. The AI alone would take forever.


Actually, the AI would not be that difficult. The one advantage that I would have over a regular video game is that I wouldn't have to worry about speed. A large amount of AI research is focused on how to make the algorithms faster so that a game will not slow down.

Take pathfinding for example. As monsters are effectly randomly moving obstructions, I would have to recalculate the possible paths on each turn. This is extremely expensive in terms of processor power and video games uses lots of "cheats" to speed things up.

Mike Z
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Summerfield
United States
Redlands
California
flag msg tools
mb
It was only an idea! Sheesh!

Anyways, okay forget I wrote that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.