How are modifiers applied when they include both the term "Combat Roll" and either "Space Battles" or "Invasion Combat?" There's already a mention of this in the FAQ, but the wording is confusing.
FAQ, p. 1-2 wrote:
The term “combat roll” is inclusive. It covers any instance in which you roll a die and compare the result to a unit’s combat value to determine whether or not an enemy casualty has been inflicted. This includes PDS fire and all pre-combat abilities that are compared to a unit’s combat value.
Effects that take place during “Space Battles” or “Invasion Combat” specifically make reference only to variables within the Space Battle Sequence and the Invasion Combat Sequence. Thus, if an ability grants you +1 to your dice during Space battles, this bonus is only applied during step 2 of the Space Battles Sequence (“roll combat dice”), and does not affect any other rolls, including pre-combat effects, PDS, bombardment, etc.
Further clouding the issue are answers to some specific questions later.
FAQ, p. 3 wrote:
Q: If a Dreadnought is damaged by a pre-combat ability, can it be destroyed by a Direct Hit card?
A: Yes, because pre-combat abilities happen during the Space Battle step of an activation. Ships that are damaged by PDS fire (or by space mines in SHATTERED EMPIRE) may not be targeted by “Direct Hit,” since PDS fire does not occur in the Space Battle step.
FAQ, p.11 wrote:
Q: Can you acquire the objective: “I destroyed x ships in a Space Battle” by shooting them with a PDS? What about precombat abilities?
A: No, PDS fire happens before the Combat step. All precombat abilities happen during the Space Battle step, and therefore count toward the objective.
The only way I can rectify these rulings is to say that the clarification is wrong. "Space Battle" must include pre-combat, but not PDS, in contrast to the FAQ ruling on the first page.
Let's look at some specific wordings. Do these situations include pre-combat abilities or pds fire?
L1Z1X Racial wrote:
Your Dreadnought units receive +1 during Space Battles
Xxcha Racial wrote:
Your opponents receive -1 on all combat rolls against you during the first combat round of all Space Battles and Invasion Combat.
The use of "first combat round" implies that this is not meant to apply to any pre-combat abilities or to PDS fire, which overrides my thoughts about Space Battles including pre-combat abilities.
TI3 Rulebook, p. 18 wrote:
A Fleet defending a Nebula receives +1 to its combat rolls during any Space Battle here.
For what it's worth, this topic has come up before, though I figured I'd start a new thread rather than resurrect a long dead one.
- Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2013 9:57 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Fri Feb 8, 2013 9:57 pm
It's probably worth to look at the exact definition and parts of a space battle in the rules:
-The Battle Round:
2)Roll combat dice
So the definition of a space battle in the FAQ seems to be wrong, because regarding to the rules pre combat abilities are part of the space battle. But rules according to a combat round don't apply to the the pre combat abilities, because they are not part of a combat round.
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I think that there was a time when pre-combat was not ruled to be part of Space Combat, but the ruling was later reversed. The part quoted saying pre-combat is not part of a Space Combat is incorrect; this ruling was changed since that was written, but it apparently was not updated in that specific section.
PDS fire, however, is not part of "pre combat", and is never part of a Space Battle.
The crux of it comes down to these points:
- Things that refer to "combat rolls" are ANY time that you would compare a die roll to a unit's combat value. This includes rolls in and out of combat, so would include things like regular battle rolls, PDS fire, pre-combat rolls, Bombardment, etc.
- Things that refer to "Space Combat" include effects that happen during rounds of combat, OR pre-combat effects like Anti-Fighter Barrage, Assault Cannons, etc. However, Bombardment and PDS fire DO NOT count as pre-combat.
- Things that refer to a "round of combat" do not include pre-combat effects.
I hope that helps
Quick clarification on combat rolls:
This still excludes Space Mines, Gen Synthesis, Dacxive Animators, Political Card determinations etc. as these are not units. PDSs, and any piece of plastic are combat rolls, regardless of the timing of the roll.
Timing of a tactical action:
Pre-combat effects (AFB coming before Sabotage Runs. No other timing restrictions)
First round of space battle
End of round of space battle (execute withdrawals/retreats & remove casulaties).
Start of second round of space battle
(so on and so forth)
End of space battle
Declare Invasions (commit units to specific planets)
Diplomats? (starting with first planet)
Bombardment/ACs involving ships
PDS fire/ACs involving MUs
Rounds of invasion combat
Transfer planet (tapped, unless NanoTech)
Start invading next planet