Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Elder Sign» Forums » Rules

Subject: Timing of using common item/unique item rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tony Lam
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
The old rule said that you can only use the common item/unique item to give you additional die before you roll. I don't see the revised rule specifically mention that. Does it mean the items could be used after rolling dices?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomas Daniel
Czech Republic
Ostrava
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Items can be used only before roll.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh C
United States
Sherwood
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Before roll, but does that mean: if i roll 5 green dice... and fail... discard one die... could I then use the item to gain a red die and roll 4 green and a red?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David K.
United States
Pflugerville
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I believe you have to use the item before you start the adventure card. Once on the card, and rolling tasks, you are stuck with the dice you started with.

If I'm wrong, someone will correct me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Davis
United States
North Dakota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shadowen wrote:
I believe you have to use the item before you start the adventure card. Once on the card, and rolling tasks, you are stuck with the dice you started with.

If I'm wrong, someone will correct me.


If what you are saying is true, then we have been playing it wrong. We allow a player to add a Yellow or Red die after rolling/discarding, but before rolling again.

On page 12 of the rulebook it says"
"During his turn, a player may discard one of these items* to add the yellow die to his dice pool." (My empasis)

*referring to Common Item Cards

Does anyone know where in the rules it specifically says it has to be before the initial roll?


- SK
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
H-B-G
United Kingdom
Halesowen
West Midlands
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sargonkid wrote:
Shadowen wrote:
I believe you have to use the item before you start the adventure card. Once on the card, and rolling tasks, you are stuck with the dice you started with.

If I'm wrong, someone will correct me.


If what you are saying is true, then we have been playing it wrong. We allow a player to add a Yellow or Red die after rolling/discarding, but before rolling again.

On page 12 of the rulebook it says"
"During his turn, a player may discard one of these items* to add the yellow die to his dice pool." (My empasis)

*referring to Common Item Cards

Does anyone know where in the rules it specifically says it has to be before the initial roll?


- SK


Yes, nowhere in the revised rules or thr FAQ does it say it has to be before the initial roll. In this case the original rules are clearer, stating (my bold)

Quote:
A player may spend 1 or more Common Items, Unique Items,
or Spells before any roll while his Investigator marker is on
an Adventure card.


In certain cases this was changed (e.g. spells securing dice) but there has been no indication of a change regarding items adding dice to the pool.

Also persuasive (although not conclusive as there are differences in some cases), is the fact that the Elder Sign: Omens app allows the use of items adding dice before any roll, not just the initial one.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Davis
United States
North Dakota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wrote:
On page 12 of the rulebook it says"
"During his turn, a player may discard one of these items* to add the yellow die to his dice pool." (My empasis)

To take this a step furtber:

One could say this does not prohibit adding a Red/Yellow Dice after rollings but before discarding - in fact, the way it is written, anytime during a player's turn, one could add a die. I have never played it that way, but what the hell, eh?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Detective Conan
msg tools
I am also a little confused about the timing in the case of the Healing stone, which states : "Before rolling, discard to fully restore..."
My question is : is there a difference between "Rolling" and "Re-rolling" ? If I do not use the stone on my 1st roll, and then I need to reroll (putting a die aside), can I still use the stone before rerolling ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
DetConan wrote:
I am also a little confused about the timing in the case of the Healing stone, which states : "Before rolling, discard to fully restore..."
My question is : is there a difference between "Rolling" and "Re-rolling" ? If I do not use the stone on my 1st roll, and then I need to reroll (putting a die aside), can I still use the stone before rerolling ?

Wow. Some people really like to make things complicated for themselves.

OK, look at it like this:

"Rolling" means "rolling the dice". If you fail to resolve a task on one roll of the dice, you can set aside one die and reroll. At this point you are, once again, "rolling the dice". There is no rule that the card can only be used before the first roll of your turn. So yes, you can use the healing stone before any roll. Just like the items that allow you to add the red and/or yellow dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What about Clues ? If you roll, let's say your six green, don't get what you're looking for, can you spend a "before rolling" effect if you're planning on using a Clue to reroll the dice or do you have to first drop 1 die (for failing to complete a task) before you can use it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Dam the Man wrote:
What about Clues ? If you roll, let's say your six green, don't get what you're looking for, can you spend a "before rolling" effect if you're planning on using a Clue to reroll the dice or do you have to first drop 1 die (for failing to complete a task) before you can use it?

Damn you for noticing the flaw in my argument!

I'm actually not sure if that is allowed or not, but my first inclination is to say that using a clue does not initiate a new roll of the dice per se; yes, you're rerolling some or all of the dice, but it all counts as part of the "same" roll.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed. Was just trying to see if you'd fall into the non-existant rules pothole cool .
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Little
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
If it helps, the iOS version allows you to use an item card after every roll. So I could add a yellow/red die after I failed a roll.

This is how I understood the rules for the boardgame and how I play.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Obvious munchkin potential:

Play unique item to add red die to pool. Roll. Fail. Discard red die. Play second unique item to add red die back into pool.

Legal play or not?

Obviously, letting unique items serve as weaker clues isn't going to break the game, but it also does provide an advantage (particularly if you're rolling for the final Elder Sign...)

EDIT:

Official FAQ says no:
Quote:
No. When a die is discarded after failing to complete
a task, it is gone for the rest of that player’s turn and
cannot be reacquired with another item or ability until the
next turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
H-B-G
United Kingdom
Halesowen
West Midlands
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rmsgrey wrote:
Obvious munchkin potential:

Play unique item to add red die to pool. Roll. Fail. Discard red die. Play second unique item to add red die back into pool.

Legal play or not?



Not

FAQ wrote:

Can you get the red or yellow die more than once per adventure by using multiple items? Can I discard the red or yellow die after failing a task and then use an item to get the die back?

No. There’s only one red die and one yellow die. Once a player uses an item to get the yellow die (for instance), he rolls the yellow die with his die pool for the rest of the adventure, until it it either used to complete a task or discarded to pay for failing to complete a task. Once a die is discarded to pay for failing to complete a task, it is gone for the rest of that player’s turn and cannot be reacquired with another item or ability until the next turn.


I agree that it is legal to use an item to gain the red/yellow die before a roll other than the first roll, but only if that die hasn't been previously added.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.