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Samarkand: Routes to Riches» Forums » Rules

Subject: Trade link with other families rss

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Armin Sudhoff
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Still not sure, if we play this right... I also search for the english rules, but the links in this forum to queens website don't work (anymore?).
So I also don't know the translation for the english game elements. soblue

The german rules say:
"...if it is a new link for both families, anyone gets a reward (3 dirham if in active family - 1 dirham in passive family)"

When does this reward really pay off?
For the very first link of the family (the dark one)?
Must both link-items be the dark one? So both have their very first link? Does it pay off, if any of both are dark? And only for the dark one?
E.G. Arabs connect to Tigris. Arabs already had a first connection, Tigris not.
My intuition says: Give 1 dirham to all married with Tigris. No reward for arabs (as they already have a connection).

Can this be confirmed??

Thanks for your help,

Greetz, HivedOne!
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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The dark/light does not matter - that's just to track the game end condition.

If it is the first time *these two families* have connected, the payouts happen. Anyone who owns a share (e.g. is married into) the active family (the one that placed the camel to make the link) gets $3. Anyone who owns a share of the passive family gets $1.
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Armin Sudhoff
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Thanks for this very fast and clarifying answer

Assuming, this is right, the next question would be:
Are there any moments, when payouts don't happen, when "link-items" are collected?
Or asked other way round: Do you get link-items everytime, you set a camel in an already occupied field, so maybe even collecting four of them when placing two camels? (this would make the game end much faster!)

Thanks in advance for an answer... I wonder, if noone else stumbled over this rule (or are the english rules much more clearly and no german players around??)

Greetz, HivedOne.
 
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J S
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womit hast Du Schwierigkeiten bei der Regel?

Wenn Deine Familie zum ersten mal eine andere Familie aktiv trifft - Du setzt die Kamele - , gibt es Geld -- 3 für die Mitglieder Deiner Familie, 1 für die Mitglieder der anderen Familie.
wenn es Dir gelingt dies mit 2 Kamelen zu erreichen, gibt es natürlich auch 2x Geld.
Seite 5 der dt. Regel - mit grünem Hintergrund - erklärt dies.
Die orginal Regel dieses Spiels war deutsch - eine englische Übersetzung wird also nicht unbedingt besser zum Verständnis beitragen.

Gruss
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Armin Sudhoff
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Hey, danke, dass Du dich auf deutsch einblendest, das macht es wesentlich leichter!

Mein Hauptproblem ist vermutlich der erste Absatz:
"Stellt ein Spieler ein Kamel auf ein Landfeld, auf dem bereits ein Kamel einer andern Familie steht, entsteht eine neue Handelsverbindung zwischen beiden Kaufmannsfamilien..."

Dies lässt vermuten, dass beim Setzen in jedes bereits besetzte Feld "etwas passiert"... also auch dann, wenn die Familien bereits verbunden sind. Dem ist nach deiner Erklärung nach nicht so. Bei Absatz 3 ist von einer "ersten Verbindung" die Rede. Hier ist unklar, ob es nur die "erste Verbindung" zwischen diesen beiden Familien sein muss oder für beide Familien sogar die allererste im Spiel (grünes Plättchen).

Auch unglücklich ist mMn der Schlussabsatz: "Zusätzlich nimmt sich der Spieler... das oberste Verbindungsplättchen..."
Hier war mir nicht klar "zusätzlich" wozu: Dazu, dass er ein Kamel gesetzt hat? Zum kassieren der Prämie?

So wie du es mir erklärt hast, ist es mir jetzt auch klar... hätte aber mMn auch deutlicher in den Regeln erklärt werden können. Denn es passiert schlicht und ergreifend immer nur etwas, wenn sich zwei Familien das erste Mal treffen. Mit dieser Einleitung hätte man viel Konfusion bei mir verhindern können.

Somit vielen Dank für die erklärenden Worte. Scheint so, als hätten wir bisher zu wenig Geld kassiert. Wir spielten nach den Regeln, dass beim Nehmen von grünen Plättchen die Prämie nur für die Besitzer der grünen Plättchen ausgezahlt wurde. War aber auch eine interessante Variante. Denn nach den geklärten Regeln wäre es beinahe Quatsch, sich für Karten auszahlen zu lassen. Denn Geld hat man ohnehin genug. Lieber heirate ich mich noch in die Familie ein, die soeben mein Plättchen "erobert" hat.

So far. Tausend Dank für die Hilfe,

HivedOne aus Südwestdeutschland :-)

P.S.: Beim zweiten Lesen deines Posts werde ich wieder unsicher: Vor allem die Aussage: "wenn es Dir gelingt dies mit 2 Kamelen zu erreichen, gibt es natürlich auch 2x Geld." ...aber du meinst vermutlich, wenn es mir gelingt, in einem Zug zwei verschiedene Familien das erste Mal zu erreichen... oder?? blush
 
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Bruce Murphy
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You should be able to get the English rules from the queen site even though thelinkshere are dead.

B>
 
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J S
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zum ps: zwei Familien das erste mal --- ... oder?? JA
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Bruce Murphy
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HivedOne wrote:
Thanks for this very fast and clarifying answer :)

Assuming, this is right, the next question would be:
Are there any moments, when payouts don't happen, when "link-items" are collected?
Or asked other way round: Do you get link-items everytime, you set a camel in an already occupied field, so maybe even collecting four of them when placing two camels? (this would make the game end much faster!)

Thanks in advance for an answer... I wonder, if noone else stumbled over this rule (or are the english rules much more clearly and no german players around??)

Greetz, HivedOne.


If your two expansion moves both place a camel in a hex with another family's camel and in both cases such an overlap has never happened before then yes, four relationship (handshake) markers are given out, provided there are enough left. It is possible you run out of markets for the placing company.

If your placing family already shares a space with the existing family somewhere else on the board, nothing happens. You also can't have more than two camels in a space which can be a useful blocking move.

Yes, you can abruptly end the game like this. Control of game length is a feature of the game.

B>
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Armin Sudhoff
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Hi there,

many thanks to all, who helped me out by explaining this feature.

That way it's much easier to handle. Either "all" or "nothing" happens. I still think, that the rulebook could have cleared this out better, by stating the things as clear as you did... on the other hand it must be a mistake of my own, as no one else seems to have had problems with this.

Thank you all for that.

Greetz, HivedOne
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Kris Verbeeck
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HivedOne wrote:
Hi there,

many thanks to all, who helped me out by explaining this feature.

That way it's much easier to handle. Either "all" or "nothing" happens. I still think, that the rulebook could have cleared this out better, by stating the things as clear as you did... on the other hand it must be a mistake of my own, as no one else seems to have had problems with this.

Thank you all for that.

Greetz, HivedOne


well we played it wrong too and awarded only for the first encounter (green handshake) with a family.
 
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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Is everyone sure that you get "trade items" (handshake marker) only for the first meeting of two families? Because the way we read it, this only applies to the reward in Dirham:

In our interpretation you get the reward only for the first meeting of a family but "trade items" for every new meeting of the same families. Like they are intensifying their relationship with every new meeting.
 
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Mikko Saari
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Yeah, only the first meeting. There's a strongly highlighted notice box after the rule that says:

"Only the 1st established relationship between any two specific families grants bonuses and relationship markers. Any further encounters of these two families are without consequences."

The whole section is under header "New trade relationship between two merchant families".

Frankly, I don't see any way you could read this otherwise. Also, it would very much break the game, as the game would end really quickly.
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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I just saw that in the English rules, too. However, the German rule book uses a little different wording in that very same box. Loosely translated:

"Only the 1st established relationship grants bonus and markers... Any further relationship doesn't give bonuses."

What would you read from that? We interpreted it that any further relationship doesn't grant the bonus but still the marker.

You are right, the games tend to end early. And I have read several German reviews that don't mention the limitation from the English rule. One even says the game plays in 30 Minutes.

A lot of confusion could have easily been avoided with better wording and an example.
 
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Mikko Saari
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The English rules are unambiguous here, go by them. The game would be broken if you handed out markers every time the families touch. You could pretty much end the game in five-ten minutes, every time, just by placing camels in a row with the same family. Five relationship markers is not much.

Also, I'd say this is pretty unambiguous as well: "Only the 1st established relationship grants bonus and markers", if you don't mind the rest of the text. I think it's stretching a bit to read this and then say that you can get markers after the first touch, even though the rules explicitly say only the first touch grants bonus.
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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Thanks for the clarification. Yep, it's a common fault to read more than there is ;-)
 
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Bruce Murphy
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The game, played correctly, should be under 30 minutes.

B>
 
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Daniel Theuerkaufer
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Well, the box says 45. Probably including setup ;-)
 
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