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Subject: [Deck] Kindly critique my NBN Fast Advance Deck rss

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Gerald Gan
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Anyway, I'm fairly new to Netrunner, and to be honest, a slightly below average LCG/CCG/TCG player (last CCG I played a lot of was Pokemon a long time ago). But I am loving Netrunner and would love to improve on the game more. So, if it isn't too mich bother, I'd love any criticisms and/or opinions and/or suggestions you can make regarding my deck. My deck is as follows:

NBN (49 Cards)

OPERATIONS:
3x Hedge Fund
1x Scorched Earth
2x Big Brother
2x Psychographics
2x Closed Accounts

ASSETS:
3x Melange Mining Corp.
1x Ghost Branch

ICE:
3x Tollbooth
2x Draco
3x Data Raven
1x Neural Katana
1x TMI
2x Archer
3x Ice Wall
3x Matrix Analyzer

UPGRADES:
2x SanSan City Grid
2x Red Herrings
2x Corporate Troubleshooter

AGENDAS:
3x AstroScript Pilot Program
3x Breaking News
2x Restructured Datapool
3x Private Security Force

I've been contemplating removing Scorched Earth and a Melange Mining Corp. and replacing 2x Snare. Thoughts?
 
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Adam Perry
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relying on melange can get you in trouble if you're playing a criminal that can get into lightly guarded severs easy, AND taking an entire turn to get money can hurt your fast advance concept. I would run Adonis instead.

I've also, in all the 50+ games i've played, used Matrix Analyzer to help score an agenda like.... once. Sure it can help you advance your ice walls, but relying on that is really situational. Plus, NBN is sort of credit starved so there were a ton of times where I had the ability, but spending that credit would have been even worse for me. The trace is really bad too. I would toss them. If you really want raw tracing ice, Hunter is the same rez cost and a trace 3. 18 Ice is also a little low, you might want to up it by throwing an extra 2x or 3x of ice in there.

I personally wouldn't run Neural Katana, but i understand that's a matter of taste/meta. you might want to splash one more so that you actually get to use it however. (I personally would swap it up for Ichi, since NK is in Mimic range, and Ichi has an opportunity (although not a good one) to tag the runner, your favorite!

Psychographics is inconsistent. It feels hella good using Psychographics to get a RD out, but the amount of times that will happen compared to the amount of times they sit dead in your hand.... I made the choice to cut them out, even though it was my favorite core card, and i wouldn't go back (not until Project Beale, the Psychographics of Agendas!) Replace them with SEA source, and you'll be able to use those closed accounts and big brothers and scorched earths a lot more.
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Steven Tu
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I find that I won't *rely* on a Melange for money, but it has the effect of being both economy when defended as well as bluff chaff when it comes down to the last few points. And even if your opponent doesn't call the bluff often they have to come in and take it out.

A risky play is to drop the melange and defend it, while leaving your R&D relatively open... Not free to walk in, but runnable. If you get some economy ice in front of it, even better. Caddie or Shadow (both less reliable since Femme is so prevalent) or the new Pop up windows, you can lure the runner that way for a while while you build resources to lock things down. Again, kinda risky. I wonder if there's some kind of synergy with this kind of play and Precognition.

At the end of the day, still include other economy options, but when you can use the melange, go for it.

And I agree on the Analyser and Psychographics... They're great on paper but the times I've seen them fire effectively is way below required performance to dead ratio for them to remain in the hand. I would rather include more reliable economy to boost the likelihood of scoring and rezzing ICE.
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Aaron Freeman
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Psychographics and Big Brother go together like peanut butter and jelly. My NBN deck capitalizes on burying the runner in tags to allow for 1 turn burst scores of any agenda in my deck.

Some runners are slippery and keep on top of their tags, but I have found in my experience that Melange is not the card of choice for most NBN decks. Instead, cards like PAD and Adonis allow you to get great returns and still have three clicks to draw additional cards, install and advance.

Decks that use Psychographics/Big Brother can fast advance with Astroscript, but typically I think of it more of a combo build. You will score a breaking news at the start of turn, play big brother, then install and score anything with 4 or less advancement points (5 with astroscript banked) via Psychographics.

It is great fun and honestly, when played correctly I have had a great time with this deck archetype. I feel NBN is a rising star in the corporations.
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Eric F
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You have six economy cards, so while I think you might get what you need early for an agenda or two, you will be hard pressed to score anything else "fast."

The most important thing to do is to focus on credits first. NBN got some really good economy assets in CE. PAD, Marked Accounts, and Private Contracts are all very good because every turn you use them, they give you an extra click worth of money.

I think you will find Corporate Troubleshooter lacking in NBN in general. It's hard to justify when a lot of our ICE is a trace. Pay for Troubleshooter, then...pay for a trace...all for a tag/power counter.

I think you will soon discover that every time You have a sansan or psycho in your hand, you will want the other.
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Scott Hartman
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I would agree on matrix analyzer not being that good. To me it looks ok but in use that benefit of advancing something really doesn't come into effect. More importantly it doesn't stop a run. It looks like you need a few static walls or enigmas. That cheap ice to actually stop a run in the early game can let you get by with little defense until the runner has a rig to overcome it.

Also, I know everyone is all nuts on Archer but I don't see the appeal. Nbn does has cheap agendas to sacrifice but overall it's not that strong for the expense. And if you are trying to fast advance then you just gave up your fast scoring agenda for a piece of ice?? Again, other cheap ice that can stop the run would be great, like ice wall or wall of thorns. Hunter is also a go to ice for nbn, it doesn't stop the run but its a strong trace to get a tag on the runner.
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James Buchanan
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More ICE

Well, I'll agree with the others that you need more ICE. You want nearly half you deck to be ICE. 21 cards would be a bare minimum. And you want to ensure more than half of that will be cheap enough to rez your first turn. Ice walls are great as are Ravens.

More Focus

The title of your thread says fast advance. If you really want to do fast advance I'd get rid of everything in the deck that does damamge. The scorced earth, the katanas, ect. You can keep the Private Security Force.

Instead focus your ICE on tagging, ending the run, and stealing clicks from the runner. Borrow from HB.

Conversly, you could make a really good killer NBN deck. Take another scorced earth and borrow liberally from Jinteki. Take those snares you wanted.
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Josh Schaener
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shartma wrote:
Also, I know everyone is all nuts on Archer but I don't see the appeal. Nbn does has cheap agendas to sacrifice but overall it's not that strong for the expense. And if you are trying to fast advance then you just gave up your fast scoring agenda for a piece of ice?? Again, other cheap ice that can stop the run would be great, like ice wall or wall of thorns.


Archer is a calculated risk in fast advance. Most of the time he sits un-rezzed, but sacking a cheap agenda to do potentially irrevocable damage to the runner's rig, especially if you have seen them chuck their program copies to the heap already, can be game winning.
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Steven Tu
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Archer is great for a surprise if you drive it right. Don't rely on it too much. Selling a Breaking News is alright if it saves your game.

I'd like to raise Red Herring, it's really a super star in most games unless the runner runs away with money AND manages to inside job you. It's good for a bluff, and following up to the bluff can make the runner blow a bunch of cash getting through a Tollbooth only to be stopped cold. And that extra turn that you get makes it cheaper than San San, really.

San San is really difficult to find the economy to use when you're scrambling for every last little bit of pocket change to rez some stuff.

Caduceus. It's great in NBN, Caduceus has a built in ninja - in that it can usually be broken for a 5 naturally by the runner. BUT with NBN that's 7 (once a turn), and if you play it right it'll give you money (dump it on R&D or other attractive returning trip target, maybe HQ if against crims, but be careful). It's a credit drain if the runner persists, and can make you money. But if there's link, just toss it, don't even bother.

1 TMI is pretty pointless. Go for 3. They need to be dropped as early as possible. Late game maybe just toss them, depending. Remember your +2 trace money - you can use that in combination with TMI to drain the runner's resources... you spend 3, they spend 4. Though you probably need resources more yourself. So unless the runner's broke as hell, don't do that. In fact, nevermind. Just rez it.

The Astroscript Avalanche is amazing when it starts up, so Red Herring early game will keep it safe for a bit.
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Gerald Gan
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Thanks for all the tips/advice so far! Keep 'em coming!
 
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Alejandro G.
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Where are the Pad Campaigns? Where is your money!?
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Steven Tu
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
Where are the Pad Campaigns? Where is your money!?


I myself has been desperately trying to find a replacement for pad in a fast advance deck... I think pop up window might do very well, but it does mean leaving something open to be run on... R&D? Hq? Not sure if that's the most effective solution...

I don't like marked accounts. The only advantage is 1 extra to trash, meh.
 
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Eric F
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An update (I'm not posting from a phone anymore):

I'd like to emphasize the fact that your win conditions are varied and somewhat unreliable. SE isn't reliable at all (if it's tempo, that's fine; my NBN deck actually has them now).

1) You _need_ more economy. Somewhere. Something. 3 Hedge and 3 Melange simply won't cut it. Melange is basically an agenda for how easy it is to trash in places while it's still not useful to you. Even if it's in your opening hand, it's not like your cheap ICE can defend it...at least you're running Ice Wall. Draco, in practice, won't stop it; it's just the threat of a dual-purpose trace that makes the card decent.

2) Corporate troubleshooter isn't good in this deck, as I stated before. You're much better off replacing it with Beanstalk Royalties.

3) Herrings do not defend naked servers. If anything, it will sap a click from them, but it needs to be defended like an agenda. If you want a stronger defense, drop SE, grab 2 ASH instead (also replace another card. Neural Katana?).

4) Matrix Analyzer; hilariously good in theory, pretty awful in practice. For what my decks like, Hunter is almost always a better deal. However, you're running Sansan, Psycho, _and_ BB, which brings me to my next point...

5) Decide on your win condition now, don't let one pop up for you from the deck. If you want SE (IMO not that great), commit to it. If you want Psycho, commit to it (focus a lot more on the tags, get SEA Source in here somewhere). If you want Sansan, commit to it (drop some of the tag-only ICE, focus on more defense.)

I'm a big fan of deciding how you want to win, and then grabbing the tools you need to win that way. Not, including everything in your deck, and then see what comes up to see if you can win with that.
 
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Eric F
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Tuism wrote:

I don't like marked accounts. The only advantage is 1 extra to trash, meh.


My new economy is going to be 3x Hedge Fund, 3x Marked Accounts, 3x Private Contracts, 3x Popup, 3x Shadow.

Hedge fund is hedge fund.

Marked Accounts is _free_ to rez, which you simply can't ignore the value of early game when NBN's fast advance can really throw a runner for a loop. Those 2 credits can be used to score a Breaking News, followed up by popping their Armitage with credits, Closed Accounts, or Big Brother to sap them of credits and time clearing them.

Private Contracts is the opposite, but you pay for its sharp increase in defense over Melange. In an average scenario for fast advance tag focused NBN, Melange is defended by a tag ICE. You rez it, gain 7 credits, net gain of +6. The runner runs on it, pops it, and clears the tag. Private Contracts, if rezzed for 3 at the end of your opponents turn, you can waste your turn to gain 6 credits, net gain of +3. But Private Contracts can be left open, or even defended with tagging ICE; a runner will likely not be able to trash it, or if they do, you haven't wasted money rezzing it yet and instead it saps precious credits from a runner.

Shadow is still shadow. It's the perfect ICE for early game NBN against a corp that can't find a killer or is relying on Crypsis to break its subs. Drop one on a central, and if you think it will pay off, advance it too.

Popup is the same kinda deal. It gives you credits, guaranteed, it's free to rez, and if a runner doesn't have Yog, it's likely costing them one per run. Sure, it's not the best thing to stop runs, but if Gabe is swinging in without a breaker on HQ, it's +1c for you, -1c for him, he gains +2c for his passive, so instead of his passive giving him 2 credits for 1 click, he's simply broken even. Popup helps in front of other pieces of ICE too (although situations where you'd do this on purpose aren't that great). Bluff going below 7 for the Tollbooth protecting your remote...Popup, now you've got 8 and then you pop up (lol) Tollbooth in their face. AH HA!

===

Back on topic, OP should read this and decide on some more economy for his deck. =P
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Steven Tu
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No love for caduceus? though I do find the influence cost of 2 a tad high.
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Aaron Hedegaard
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Tuism wrote:
No love for caduceus? though I do find the influence cost of 2 a tad high.


Caduceus income is less consistent - a high link runner will deny you those credits with no breaker. The ETR is nice, but NBN likes the shadow tag anyway.

ignisphaseone wrote:
My new economy is going to be 3x Hedge Fund, 3x Marked Accounts, 3x Private Contracts, 3x Popup, 3x Shadow.


I've been thinking something similar for when I pick up Cyber Exodus with PAD campaigns instead of Private Contracts, since it saves on clicks in the long run.
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Adam Perry
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i see caduceus as ETR ice that pays for itself when it's rezzed. i find it to be a lot more useful early game than shadow, since both of them kind of taper off mid game.

of course, personal experience/meta is personal experience/meta.
 
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David Jensen
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I like shadow for the advance effect combined with Matrix Analyzer. Income generator even later in the game. Plus since I play a tag threat NBN (with dual fast advance threat) I feel like I'm in the game.

I try to get cute and play Trick of Light for even faster combos on those advanced ice. I'm still playtesting the deck but so far since the final tweak, its 1-1. With loss coming as I was one turn away and the runner gaining a very lucky (3 pt agenda from HQ @ 25% chance and a 2 pt agenda desperation run on R&D). The other stolen agendas were legit. Very fun game!

2x Pyschographics

My OOF NBN:
Trick of Light x2 (***,***)
Scorched Earth (****)
Shadow (*,*)
Ice Wall (*,*)
Junebug (*)
 
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David Jensen
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If you are having troubles with this deck, I'm not sure I'd be surprised.

I think you may have too many events that rely on tags. Closed Accounts, Psychograhics and Big Brother. Consider eliminating three of them and get more ICE.

Also, three matrix analyzers and only three Ice Walls to place them on is not optimal use of those matrix analzyers. Consider Shadow or Junebugs which are all one influence. If you are thinking Analyzers will score you agendas faster, I'd be real curious to know how you pull this off consistently.
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Gerald Gan
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Thanks to all the kind suggestions/criticisms from everyone, I tweaked my deck. Mind if I get your thoughts on the modified deck?

NBN (49 Cards)

OPERATIONS:
3x Hedge Fund
1x Scorched Earth
2x Big Brother
2x SEA Source
2x Closed Accounts

ASSETS:
2x PAD Campaign
2x Adonis Campaign

ICE:
3x Tollbooth
2x Draco
3x Data Raven
2x Neural Katana
2x TMI
2x Hunter
2x Enigma
2x Wall of Static
3x Ice Wall

UPGRADES:
2x SanSan City Grid
2x Red Herrings

AGENDAS:
3x AstroScript Pilot Program
3x Breaking News
2x Restructured Datapool
1x Executive Retreat
1x Private Security Force
 
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