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Subject: Weyland Woodcutter Combo rss

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James Finkle
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So, with this latest Data Pack, Weyland gets a new Flatline combo.

The combo is Woodcutter + a bunch of advancement counters + Corporate Troubleshooter. Get the runner to run on the Woodcutter, Troubleshoot the Woodcutter way beyond what they can handle, and watch it chop them down. Getting the runner to run there should be pretty easy - just drop Agendas on that server. If they don't run it, you get free Agenda points and win. If they do, they get chopped down.

So what are the weaknesses here?

#1 is Parasite. Parasite quickly wipes out Woodcutter, and spending your turns purging Virus counters doesn't accomplish too much. They can pretty easily use one Datasucker counter and one Parasite counter to send Woodcutter packing.

#2 is Ninja. Ninja's high buff ratio means that it's going to be a lot harder to out-power them, as they only need to spend 3 credits per 5 you spend to keep up. Mimic has Fixed Strength, Pipeline and Femme are 2:1 to buff, Mimic can't be buffed at all, and Crypsis is 1:1, so those are all pretty easy to beat, but Ninja can be difficult to overcome. Not as bad as Parasite, which can undo all of your hard work in an instant, but still it can be a major obstacle.

#3 is Public Sympathy - Each PS they get into play means you need to advance twice more to be lethal.


So what cards can we use to support this strategy:

For starters, we need to find a way to make advancing Woodcutter 6+ times not an impossible feat. The best way to accomplish this is Matrix Analyzer, which gives you the opportunity to spend a credit to advance anything whenever it is encountered. Playing this on a server that the runner is likely to run a few times (HQ or R&D mainly) is a good way to get this rolling. Shipment from Kaguya lets you advance two cards at the same time, so you can advance Woodcutter at the same time as advancing an agenda, ambush, or other advanceable Ice.
There are also a couple of niche out-of-faction cards that can help you advance, like Psychographics (probably bad as no one will hang on to enough tags against Weyland, fearing the Scorched Earth kill, to be able to reliably do this) and Trick of Light (certainly decent, though expensive to use out of faction).

Amazon Industrial Zone gets you past one of the biggest hangups Woodcutter has, which is that it has to be rezzed before it can be advanced. Being able to play your Woodcutter face up, and at a severe discount, means that the first time it's run on, it's not a 4-credit waste.

Commercialization goes hand-in-hand with this strategy, letting you refund all of the cash invested into advancing your Woodcutter. Banking these until the Woodcutter is well-stocked, and then using several in a row can skyrocket your credit pool to the point where you should be able to easily Troubleshoot your opponent out.

Archer, Tollbooth, Hadrian's Wall, and Janus are all huge Ice that pose delicious targets for your opponent's Parasites. Archer and Hadrian's are obvious inclusions, and how many of the others you can include will depend on how else your influence is spent.

Cards like Melange Mining Corporation, Beanstalk Royalties, Hedge Fund, Shadow, Caduceus, Archer, and Private Contracts can keep your credit pool high to keep advancing your Ice and Agendas, as well as make Troubleshooter a larger threat.

Archer, Rototurret, and Aggressive Secretary can trash opposing programs, removing Djinn (who otherwise finds Parasites), Ninja, Crypsis, and other Sentry Breakers to make this an easier kill.



So, what are people's thoughts on how to build this deck, if it is indeed even worth building?
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Michele Lupo
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I think it might be worthwhile to include this card in a regular, non Tag and Bag Rush Weyland deck, but certainly it doesn't deserve a deck built around it.
 
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James Finkle
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Wolf88 wrote:
I think it might be worthwhile to include this card in a regular, non Tag and Bag Rush Weyland deck, but certainly it doesn't deserve a deck built around it.


On the contrary, I think the card is garbage on its own. It's four cost, doesn't do anything the first time it's rezzed, and requires a significant investment to accomplish anything. Unless you're playing Matrix Analyzer, Corporate Troubleshooter, and probably Amazon, it's going to generally be a tremendous waste of time and money.
 
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Aaron s
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It might be interesting to stick in an HB deck with Trick of Light to use with Accelerated Beta Test

But they both have a 3 influence, so at best you've got two in each deck. and then only 3 leftover.

Edit: Actually sorry I'm dumb, while ABT couldn't hurt, I'm thinking of Priority Requisition.
 
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Jeremy Buckmaster
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wildfire393 wrote:
Wolf88 wrote:
I think it might be worthwhile to include this card in a regular, non Tag and Bag Rush Weyland deck, but certainly it doesn't deserve a deck built around it.


On the contrary, I think the card is garbage on its own. It's four cost, doesn't do anything the first time it's rezzed, and requires a significant investment to accomplish anything. Unless you're playing Matrix Analyzer, Corporate Troubleshooter, and probably Amazon, it's going to generally be a tremendous waste of time and money.


I have to completely agree, I think its an awesome card, but its not really playable with what we have. I am not even sure what it would take to make it worthy of "having its own deck"
 
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Jessey
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Weakness #4: Femme Fatale. As soon as you load it up, any runner with Femme and Special Order is going to SO and pick your weighty woodcutter as their free bypass.

Weakness #5: Running a Different Server. Woodcutter must telegraph itself. There is no reason a Runner must absolutely run on Remotes to win (or HQ or R&D for that matter). No one server is mandatory for the Runner to take down unless the Corp is threatening to win on the next turn with a score, and if the Corp is already in that position the Woodcutter-kill combo is filling the role of a "well defended server" and that' great, but thinking of the cost to put it together you would probably have been better off just building a well defended server.

Weakness #6: Expose. If the runner knows you have a Troubleshooter in the root of your server with the kill-cutter on it, they simply won't run it unless the credits are in their favour.

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Chengkai Yang
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Candi wrote:
Weakness #4: Femme Fatale. As soon as you load it up, any runner with Femme and Special Order is going to SO and pick your weighty woodcutter as their free bypass.



Reread woodcutter, its not 1 damage per counter, its 1 net damage sub per counter. its a complete waste to fem it as the cost to bypass is exactly equal to breaking with fem.
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Tucker Taylor
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Candi wrote:
Weakness #4: Femme Fatale. As soon as you load it up, any runner with Femme and Special Order is going to SO and pick your weighty woodcutter as their free bypass.

They're still paying a buck per subroutine each time.
 
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draxx01 wrote:
Candi wrote:
Weakness #4: Femme Fatale. As soon as you load it up, any runner with Femme and Special Order is going to SO and pick your weighty woodcutter as their free bypass.



Reread woodcutter, its not 1 damage per counter, its 1 net damage sub per counter. its a complete waste to fem it as the cost to bypass is exactly equal to breaking with fem.


Ahh, my mistake.

A minor setback, but I take "Weakness #5" to be the real nail in the coffin for this "combo deck".
 
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James Finkle
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Augh, I forgot about Femme. That pretty well kills this dead, between her and Parasite.

The only way that this ends up being remotely viable is if there's a Condition card like:

"Install this on a piece of Ice. That piece of Ice cannot be affected or bypassed by cards the runner controls, except for subroutines on Icebreakers"

That stops Parasite, Femme's bypass, Emergency Shutdown, Tinkering, Inside Job, etc.
 
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wildfire393 wrote:
Augh, I forgot about Femme. That pretty well kills this dead, between her and Parasite.

The only way that this ends up being remotely viable is if there's a Condition card like:

"Install this on a piece of Ice. That piece of Ice cannot be affected or bypassed by cards the runner controls, except for subroutines on Icebreakers"

That stops Parasite, Femme's bypass, Emergency Shutdown, Tinkering, Inside Job, etc.


As the two posters immediately after me noted, Femmes' bypass does not get her ahead against Woodcutter. Femme has to pay 1 credit per subroutine to bypass, and she pays 1 credit to break. Of course, she does stop the Troubleshooter -- which I hadn't even thought of when I first brought her up.

Femme aside, I still think that since Woodcutter's requirement to be rezzed to advance is the biggest short falling of this strategy. It is a poor Runner indeed who is unable to run a different server to score agendas. I know my Anarch deck wouldn't care if you had a beefy cutter on any one server, as it can confidently ignore 1 server and still win (even given that it typically doesn't run remotes) -- and this is setting aside the fact that it runs Parasite. With Medium and now Nerve Agent (and Noise) I'm solid. Crim and Shapers are very likely the same.
 
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The Lord of Space
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I'm not going to build my deck around a Woodcutter combo, but I will use it.

I already use Troubleshooter so that's not a problem, I'll splash for a couple Matrix Analyzers since those will be useful with Ice Wall as well. Basically I see Woodcutter not for its kill potential, but as a server access denial tool. It's going to be scary running on one if there's a possibility of a Troubleshooter behind it.

If my opponent has parasites, I'll just concentrate on beefing Ice Wall instead. I'm probably just going to drop Hadrian's because I fear that Emergency Shutdown is going to make it useless. Archer gets to stay because even though it's arguably worse off from Shutdown, that first time it's rezzed there's a good chance I can really set the runner back.

With Woodcutter, Ice Wall, Matrix Analyzer, Kaguya and Commercialization I have a feeling I'll be able to safely spend turns powering them and making some mad cash too. All while still constantly threatening the Taggin Baggins game.

All that's left now is to play it and see how it works out.
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Robert Robinson
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I love this idea. This is actually the first thing I though of when I saw Woodcutter after Trick of Light came out. I wanted to build a deck around advancement tokens and buffing up ice while being able to move it over quickly to an agenda. I have a couple of restrictions: No WLA pack, and only singles of the ones that came single in the core.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core)


Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (10)
Hostile Takeover (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x3
Priority Requisition (Core) x3
Executive Retreat (Trace Amount) x1

Asset: (0)

ICE: (20)
Hadrian's Wall (Core) x3
Ice Wall (Core) x3
Matrix Analyzer (Core) x2
Shadow (Core) x2
Woodcutter (Cyber Exodus) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Chimera (Cyber Exodus) x2
Archer (Core) x2
Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) x1

Operation: (15)
Beanstalk Royalties (Core) x3
Commercialization (Cyber Exodus) x3
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Shipment from Kaguya (Core) x3
Trick of Light (Trace Amount) x3

Upgrade: (4)
Corporate Troubleshooter (Core) x1
Amazon Industrial Zone (Trace Amount) x3

Total Agenda Points: 21

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 1
Jinteki: 9
NBN: 5
The Weyland Consortium: 39

This is going to end up being a very wealthy deck with some great ICE, even if I can't pull off the woodcutter flat line (which is even more limited for me since I only have 1 Corp Troubleshooter). I had one lingering influence so I threw in Popup Window for a little extra cash (obviously another Corp Troubleshooter would be ideal). I could remove a Hostile Takeover to add one more ICE, but I see the money boost with HT as a bigger priority. I think of Popup Window as a cheaper, untrashable, unreliable PAD Campaign and I see Commercialization as a more efficient, dual purpose, unreliable Armatage Codebusting (if played on an ice that has 3 advancement tokens, more is better). Amazon is an econ card too. There aren't any ambushes, but in this meta every runner assumes you have one or two in the deck so I'll just play like I have 'em. Basically I'm going to try rolling in the money while building an ICE fort made of advance-able ICE.
 
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B C Z
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NBN + APP + Woodcutter = Fun
 
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Justin
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byronczimmer wrote:
NBN + APP + Woodcutter = Fun

APP?
 
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Steven Tu
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astroglide wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
NBN + APP + Woodcutter = Fun

APP?


Astroscript Pilot Program
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Ony Moose
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Don't forget the amazing timing potential of AstroScript and Woodcutter.

For sheer awesomeness, imagine the following incredibly contrived situation:

NBN is only 2 points away from victory, and just played a Private Security force into their remote server. The runner has to steal this next turn as the corp has an unused AstroScript pilot program, but is very low on cash.

There is an Archer->Chum-> woodcutter with 8 tokens on it, which is far too expensive for the runner to get past, but the wily Chaos Theory uses her three credits to TestRun a Morning Star out onto her trusty Dinosaurus, Tinkering on the Archer and Woodcutter and starts the glory run, with only 2 credits remaining!

She effortless smashes the archer aside, gets covered in shark-bait and then approaches the woodcutter. Brandishing a gigantic mace with a dinosaur-hilt she glares at the woodcutter. "Do your worst," she challenges, "even if you advance with the AstroScript I can still smash you away in one swing."

Nothing happens.

She edges closer and encounters the woodcutter, easily breaking it apart with her morning star. As she triumphantly strolls past, a beam of moonlight illuminates the shattered axe. It rises up and makes one small cut on the back of her thigh. Chaos Theory looks around in horror as a swarm of hungry sharks materialise from no-where and engulf her avatar.

In an apartment in the cheap end of town a young girl cries out in pain, and is then silent.
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Kandiru wrote:
Don't forget the amazing timing potential of AstroScript and Woodcutter.

For sheer awesomeness, imagine the following incredibly contrived situation:

NBN is only 2 points away from victory, and just played a Private Security force into their remote server. The runner has to steal this next turn as the corp has an unused AstroScript pilot program, but is very low on cash.

There is an Archer->Chum-> woodcutter with 8 tokens on it, which is far too expensive for the runner to get past, but the wily Chaos Theory uses her three credits to TestRun a Morning Star out onto her trusty Dinosaurus, Tinkering on the Archer and Woodcutter and starts the glory run, with only 2 credits remaining!

She effortless smashes the archer aside, gets covered in shark-bait and then approaches the woodcutter. Brandishing a gigantic mace with a dinosaur-hilt she glares at the woodcutter. "Do your worst," she challenges, "even if you advance with the AstroScript I can still smash you away in one swing."

Nothing happens.

She edges closer and encounters the woodcutter, easily breaking it apart with her morning star. As she triumphantly strolls past, a beam of moonlight illuminates the shattered axe. It rises up and makes one small cut on the back of her thigh. Chaos Theory looks around in horror as a swarm of hungry sharks materialise from no-where and engulf her avatar.

In an apartment in the cheap end of town a young girl cries out in pain, and is then silent.


I believe you are asserting that after the Runner has chosen to not break subroutines that the paid ability of APP can add a subroutine.

To which the Runner may react and break the subroutine that was just added.

APP and Runner Break both happen in 3.1 - if the Corp uses the APP token the Runner gets to react.

RE-SHOOT THE SCENE, THE RABID CONTINUITY FANATICS WILL EAT US ALIVE IF WE BROADCAST IT THIS WAY.
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Chris Denney
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Kandiru wrote:
Don't forget the amazing timing potential of AstroScript and Woodcutter.

For sheer awesomeness, imagine the following incredibly contrived situation:

NBN is only 2 points away from victory, and just played a Private Security force into their remote server. The runner has to steal this next turn as the corp has an unused AstroScript pilot program, but is very low on cash.

There is an Archer->Chum-> woodcutter with 8 tokens on it, which is far too expensive for the runner to get past, but the wily Chaos Theory uses her three credits to TestRun a Morning Star out onto her trusty Dinosaurus, Tinkering on the Archer and Woodcutter and starts the glory run, with only 2 credits remaining!

She effortless smashes the archer aside, gets covered in shark-bait and then approaches the woodcutter. Brandishing a gigantic mace with a dinosaur-hilt she glares at the woodcutter. "Do your worst," she challenges, "even if you advance with the AstroScript I can still smash you away in one swing."

Nothing happens.

She edges closer and encounters the woodcutter, easily breaking it apart with her morning star. As she triumphantly strolls past, a beam of moonlight illuminates the shattered axe. It rises up and makes one small cut on the back of her thigh. Chaos Theory looks around in horror as a swarm of hungry sharks materialise from no-where and engulf her avatar.

In an apartment in the cheap end of town a young girl cries out in pain, and is then silent.
wtf? You do realize this is all happening in cyberspace right? E for effort though
 
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Robert Robinson
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Lenney81 wrote:
wtf? You do realize this is all happening in cyberspace right? E for effort though


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Alex Rockwell
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Two good things about this combo are:

1) Commercialization on the woodcutter returns a bunch of money.
2) Amazon Industrial Grid is a counter to the Vamp combo deck.

Problem is that Parasite shuts it down pretty hard.
 
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wildfire393 wrote:
That stops Parasite, Femme's bypass, Emergency Shutdown, Tinkering, Inside Job, etc.

Why on earth would you want to stop somebody from Femme-ing Woodcutter?

If somebody declared Woodcutter Femme's bypass target, I'd laugh at them. And then, you know, keep advancing it just like before.

Because Woodcutter is the only advanceable ice whose advancement makes it MORE expensive for Femme's bypass.
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byronczimmer wrote:

I believe you are asserting that after the Runner has chosen to not break subroutines that the paid ability of APP can add a subroutine.

To which the Runner may react and break the subroutine that was just added.

APP and Runner Break both happen in 3.1 - if the Corp uses the APP token the Runner gets to react.

RE-SHOOT THE SCENE, THE RABID CONTINUITY FANATICS WILL EAT US ALIVE IF WE BROADCAST IT THIS WAY.


She only had 2 credits left, 1 for archer and 1 for woodcutter, if she had more credits she could have activated morning star twice on the woodcutter, but with only 1 credit she could only break any number of subroutines once

Lenney81 wrote:
wtf? You do realize this is all happening in cyberspace right? E for effort though

... was that a jumbo jet flying over your head or is my sarcasm detector bust?
 
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Any criticism of the deck I posted above using this combo. I'm planning on playing with it this week and could use some insight.
 
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The Lord of Space
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tehflash wrote:
Any criticism of the deck I posted above using this combo. I'm planning on playing with it this week and could use some insight.


Try it out, see how it plays. My only question is: Where's Project Atlas? I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not using it.

If the deck doesn't work out too well, you could try this one that I will be trying out as soon as I get Cyber Exodus.

edit: oh I see, you are restricting yourself to no WLA, that's why you don't have PA. CARRY ON THEN
 
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