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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Do Spies HAVE TO target another representative? rss

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mosez .
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Quenstion already stated in the title: do spies have to target another representative?

This situation occurred as we had an 8-player game with both Sol and Hacan. Both races have their bodyguard combined with a spy, and the spy assassinates another representative. So in order to be able to vote (and not be assassinated) both players had to play their bodyguard/spy. Over time the galactic council just devolved into a massacre: Nekro was anyway not able to vote, Yssaril had all his representatives killed, and Arborec didnt have a bodyguard either (but gets its assassinated councilor back every turn - which still does not allow the Arborec player to vote).

I didnt find any rule, where it states that you *MAY* use the abilities of your representatives, so we assumed all the special rules have to be executed. Is this correct?

Basically that is the reason, why we try to avoid representatives alltogether, because in some situations they do not even add anything to the political game, they destroy it completely.
 
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Scott Lewis
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I agree, I don't see any rule to indicate that using these abilities is optional, unless perhaps a specific Representative's ability says "may".
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Shaun Murphy
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I agree that targeting is NOT optional.

mosez wrote:
So in order to be able to vote (and not be assassinated) both players had to play their bodyguard/spy.


I don't understand why neither of the players thought about choosing another representative. Especially Sol should try to send their Councilor to unimportant agendas and abstain to gain 2 GFs. Hacan can also get a lot more of out the Political game by playing another representative.
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mosez .
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I agree, I don't see any rule to indicate that using these abilities is optional, unless perhaps a specific Representative's ability says "may".


Thanks, exactly what I thought...


theasaris wrote:
I don't understand why neither of the players thought about choosing another representative. Especially Sol should try to send their Councilor to unimportant agendas and abstain to gain 2 GFs. Hacan can also get a lot more of out the Political game by playing another representative.


Sol's councilor has already been assassinated (by Hacan), so there was not much point to use another representative than the bodyguard/spy. And because of the special rule of Sol's bodyguard/spy, he targetted every player in turn (and everyone had a bodyguard), until he killed the Arborec councilor.

It was basically a deadlock, where we couldn't get away from this situation. Especially since the Hacan player was sitting directly before the Sol player.

And it's because of this game, our group tries to avoid representatives. We might try it again in smaller games, where we also could agree on mutual respect and peace, but with too many players this is hard to achieve...
 
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Shaun Murphy
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I understand. Perhaps, next time you should try a game only with races who cannot (directly) assassinate, i.e. only Arborec, Creuss, Jol-Nar, L1z1x, Naalu, Nekro, N'orr, Saar, Xxcha or Yssaril.
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mosez .
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theasaris wrote:
I understand. Perhaps, next time you should try a game only with races who cannot (directly) assassinate, i.e. only Arborec, Creuss, Jol-Nar, L1z1x, Naalu, Nekro, N'orr, Saar, Xxcha or Yssaril.


I know... but I rather not use the representatives, than not use half of the races in the game.

Our usual method of race determination is everyone draws two homesystems (face down), picks one, then all players reveal their races simultaneously. If someone is completely unsatisfied with his/her two races, he/she can draw one of the remaining face-down homesystems (mixing all non-picked homesystems into that pile) before others reveal and has to stick to this new race.
 
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Wieger Marsman
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We've stopped using representatives alltogether for some reasons:
All players in my group think the political agenda's are a great feature of this game, and the representatives generally distract the attention from the agendas by introducing a seperate minigame before voting.
The SC from Shards only gives the option of gaining the speaker token, while the SC from SE also gives 2 action cards. Since we like agendas, we like the more attractive SC, since it'll be chosen more often.
Influence is generally considered less important than resources. The minigame reduces the importance of influence even more by making it possible to assassinate the player with the most influence.
Most of all: We simply played once without representatives and found it to be a far more pleasant experience.

So my advice: Try to play without representatives sometime and see if your group prefers it.
 
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James Grider
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theasaris wrote:
And because of the special rule of Sol's bodyguard/spy, he targetted every player in turn (and everyone had a bodyguard), until he killed the Arborec councilor.


Is that really how it works? I always thought (and this is the way we play) that the power just meant that if the targeted person has some ability that is activated upon being targeted that ability doesn't activate.

For example, Rev. Hendrickson targets the Creuss representative. The Creuss player flips his representative over revealing it to be San Omairo (If this card is targeted by a Spy, look at the targeting player's ACs and steal one.) But since San Omairo is a bodyguard Rev. Hendrickson is not considered targeting him. Thus the Creuss player doesn't get to use his bodyguard's ability.

If this isn't how it is supposed to be played you may consider trying to play it as such anyway for purposes of avoiding the situation you described.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Keysdude wrote:

For example, Rev. Hendrickson targets the Creuss representative. The Creuss player flips his representative over revealing it to be San Omairo (If this card is targeted by a Spy, look at the targeting player's ACs and steal one.) But since San Omairo is a bodyguard Rev. Hendrickson is not considered targeting him. Thus the Creuss player doesn't get to use his bodyguard's ability.

While subtle, I think there's a difference between the "targeting player" and the "targeting representative". The way I interpret it, Rev. Hendrickson's ability is mostly about protecting himself from being counter-attacked (there are some reps who kill the attacking Spy, for instance), but doesn't protect the player from all other effects. I think the Sol player still faces the effects of the Spy, even if Rev. Hendrickson is able to hide his own identity as he flees.
 
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James Grider
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Fair enough, makes sense to me. Seems that we agree, however, that you don't get to choose another representative that round.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Keysdude wrote:
Fair enough, makes sense to me. Seems that we agree, however, that you don't get to choose another representative that round.

Correct. Rev. Hendrickson's ability doesn't allow him to assassinate all the other Reps in one turn.
 
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Arandor .
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Correct. Rev. Hendrickson's ability doesn't allow him to assassinate all the other Reps in one turn.


lol... wouldn't that be kewl...

P1: OK, I target you!
P2: Bodyguard...
P1: OK, so then I didn't target you... I target YOU now!
P3: gurgle...
 
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