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Hanabi» Forums » Variants

Subject: managing the bad card draw rss

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Masoud Tabatabaei
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For the occasions where the card draw is very bad (specially starting of the game), we sometime use a new rule: as an action a player can give hint to another player "who does not know anything about his hand yet" to discard his whole hand, shuffle the deck and draw a new hand. like a normal hint, one hint token should be discarded then.
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Jonathan Powell
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masoudtab wrote:
For the occasions where the card draw is very bad (specially starting of the game), we sometime use a new rule: as an action a player can give hint to another player "who does not know anything about his hand yet" to discard his whole hand, shuffle the deck and draw a new hand. like a normal hint, one hint token should be discarded then.


not a bad idea, but i would prefer to just play and see how well we can do with a bad draw. probably will make you better players to just play through the tough draw.

still not a bad idea.
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Adam Kunsemiller
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ukraineboo wrote:
masoudtab wrote:
For the occasions where the card draw is very bad (specially starting of the game), we sometime use a new rule: as an action a player can give hint to another player "who does not know anything about his hand yet" to discard his whole hand, shuffle the deck and draw a new hand. like a normal hint, one hint token should be discarded then.


not a bad idea, but i would prefer to just play and see how well we can do with a bad draw. probably will make you better players to just play through the tough draw.

still not a bad idea.


I pretty much fully agree with what Jonathan has said. It's an interesting variant that doesn't feel broken and could help the game for people. That being said, some of the games I enjoy the most are the ones where the deck just seems out to get us and we have to really struggle with what to do, keeps us all on our toes and usually leads to really interesting play situations, which is what I like about the game in the first place
 
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Masoud Tabatabaei
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I agree that struggling with the strange situations are the fun part of the game. This variant is supposed to help when all the hands are so bad that it seems the game is cursed :). On the other hand, I think the hint tokens are so valuable that players will not use this unless it is vital for them. (they actually lose one turn + one hint token)
 
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Sean McCarthy
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I don't think I understand the variant. Do you mean, you spend a hint token, and choose another player, and that player shuffles their hand into the deck? (And you can't use it if any of their current cards have been clued?)

If that's right it seems stupidly powerful.
 
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Masoud Tabatabaei
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yes that's right. but I don't get why you say it's so powerful (well, I agree it helps, but that's the point!). because I can't see if there is any useful normal hint existing in the game, why one should want to waste a hint token, and waste his turn, just to change the game into a an alternative situation in which normally no one gets extra information.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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masoudtab wrote:
yes that's right. but I don't get why you say it's so powerful (well, I agree it helps, but that's the point!). because I can't see if there is any useful normal hint existing in the game, why one should want to waste a hint token, and waste his turn, just to change the game into a an alternative situation in which normally no one gets extra information.


There are a couple of uses for this. One is to see more cards without having to discard. (You have a limited number of cards you are allowed to discard in a game. Consider a 4-player game: at the end of the game there are at least 12 cards in players' hands. Meanwhile there are only 25 extra cards in the game at all: after all, the other 25 cards must all be played to get a perfect score. So the players CANNOT get a win (by which I mean score perfectly) if they discard (or strike with) more than 13 cards, no matter what.)

The other is just to send back a hand that is crap. If someone is holding a 4 of a color where the other one has already been discarded and not even the 2 of that color is played, plus two 5s, plus a useless card, sending that back for replacements will be really strong. In many cases it will be impossible to get that player to not discard the critical cards without wasting a clue token anyway. If you also send the hand back you can move those cards to nearer the end of the game when they will be needed, and instead get some new cards which are much more likely to be immediately useful.
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Sean McCarthy
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"Wasting a turn" is not the right way to think about it. If you could just voluntarily skip your turn it would be the most powerful action in the game. There will always be some player, or players, who have less immediately useful hands than others. Often it would be best for the team if they could just skip a few turns while the players with better hands played out all their cards. Instead the team needs to make sure that these players have clues to give the players with good hands, and the players with good hands get the right number of clues that they can play their cards. And of course somehow the players with cards that are safe to discard must be induced to discard them, to keep the wheels turning. This joint managing of tempo is the core of the game.

What it does is cost a clue token, and clues are precious. But there are many cases where a clue must be given just to avoid disaster, and this kind of clue would do that much more effectively.
 
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Masoud Tabatabaei
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SevenSpirits wrote:
If you could just voluntarily skip your turn it would be the most powerful action in the game.

I agree. Well, maybe if we think about making the strategy based of this variant it becomes too powerful as you said. For now, we use it very rarely, normally in the beginning of the game, and when the cards seem impossible.
 
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Jonathan Powell
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masoudtab wrote:
SevenSpirits wrote:
If you could just voluntarily skip your turn it would be the most powerful action in the game.

I agree. Well, maybe if we think about making the strategy based of this variant it becomes too powerful as you said. For now, we use it very rarely, normally in the beginning of the game, and when the cards seem impossible.


Being able to pass would be a very powerful action. Even having one pass by one player in a four player game would be extremely helpful.
 
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